Admiral's Edition General Thread

[Terminus]

Agreed, this is most definitely WitP II territory.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: trojan

I know this is possibly a very late suggestion, but would it be possible to make all nations in the game either active or inactive. This would be similar to what is currently available with the Soviets in WITP. The rational would be that doing so would open many more possibilities for mod writers.


ie: Japan attacks the Soviets ( a Northern startegy rather than South), Japan attacks only Britain and France (etc) no USA attack.


what do you think

If Japan went north, Churchill would have declared, and Roosevelt would have ordered the USN to co-operate closely (sail in company) with the RN until the Japanese gave him a casus belli. So no.

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: trojan

I know this is possibly a very late suggestion, but would it be possible to make all nations in the game either active or inactive. This would be similar to what is currently available with the Soviets in WITP. The rational would be that doing so would open many more possibilities for mod writers.


ie: Japan attacks the Soviets ( a Northern startegy rather than South), Japan attacks only Britain and France (etc) no USA attack.


what do you think

If Japan went north, Churchill would have declared, and Roosevelt would have ordered the USN to co-operate closely (sail in company) with the RN until the Japanese gave him a casus belli. So no.

Just to be Devil's Advocate here. The USS Reuben James was sunk on 23 October 1941 by U-532. While there was considerable outcry over it, the US did not go to war. Isolationist feelings were still running very high in late 1941. Roosevelt desire to get the US into the war was obvious but the fact that he hadn't even asked Congress for a declaration tells me he knew he couldn't get it. Pearl Harbor changed all that.

I have seen many posts about mods/scenarios where the Japanese wartime economy and ship building programs are completely turned on their heads are far as the true reality. Yet, those of us who would like to see the "Go North" strategy explored are told that is pure fantasy and the its unrealistic that the US would stay out of the war. WHe England was on the ropes in the summer of 1940, the US did not enter the war. When all of Europe fell under Nazi domination, the US did not go to war. WHen Hitler invaded the USSR, the US did not go to war. So what makes people think that the US would have automatically gone to war if the Japanese attacked Malaya and the NEI or the USSR?

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: vettim89



I have seen many posts about mods/scenarios where the Japanese wartime economy and ship building programs are completely turned on their heads are far as the true reality. Yet, those of us who would like to see the "Go North" strategy explored are told that is pure fantasy and the its unrealistic that the US would stay out of the war. WHe England was on the ropes in the summer of 1940, the US did not enter the war. When all of Europe fell under Nazi domination, the US did not go to war. WHen Hitler invaded the USSR, the US did not go to war. So what makes people think that the US would have automatically gone to war if the Japanese attacked Malaya and the NEI or the USSR?

While I suspect many people agree that it might have been possible for the Japanese to get away with a limited war against the English and Dutch without bringing the U.S. in; however, I am not sure it would make a very fun war game. Would victory be determined by whether India falls by May 42 or holds out till June?

The Japanese were so totally incapable of fighting the Russians effectively on the ground, the Go North scenario would also seem a poor game. At the small unit scale it would humorous to try and stop a platoon of KV1s with an IJA division. Might make a fun Squad Leader scenario for Russian Armor Fanboys.

[Reg]

I was just browsing through a some of the other AE threads and some of the posts reminded me of a question regarding the date format used in AE as I cannot remember seeing an answer posted to date:

Will the AE date format be made configurable to international standards as I am always confused by a date such as 1/10/43 (January or October??).  This is particularly problematic when it is quoted out of context!!

I am sure this question is of interest to everyone who drives on the 'correct' (as opposed to the 'right') side of the road....  [;)]

[JeffroK]

Reg,

Its always possible to work out the date, but when they start talking Fall, Summer, Winter they forget that half the world doesnt share their weather patterns!!!!!

[witpqs]

As you were upside down (and hanging on for dear life by your toes) when you wrote that you obviously had 'right' and 'left' confused. No wonder you drive on the wrong side of the road!

I'm sure it's too late for AE, but I suppose somehow making the date unambiguous would be a good thing. With all that blood already rushing to your head you shouldn't be under any additional disadvantage! [;)][:D]

What would be the best solution?

[JeffroK]

Decimal Time!!

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Reg,

Its always possible to work out the date, but when they start talking Fall, Summer, Winter they forget that half the world doesn't share their weather patterns!!!!!

Touche...

What's this 'Fall' thing anyway.... Around here when the leaves fall off the trees, we call that a drought!!!

ORIGINAL: witpqs

As you were upside down (and hanging on for dear life by your toes) when you wrote that you obviously had 'right' and 'left' confused. No wonder you drive on the wrong side of the road!

[:D] [:D] [:D]

I'm sure it's too late for AE, but I suppose somehow making the date unambiguous would be a good thing. With all that blood already rushing to your head you shouldn't be under any additional disadvantage!

What would be the best solution?

Check out the regional settings on your computer. dd-MMM-yy (19-Jan-09) date format is pretty unambiguous and it is used by the military for this reason.

However, I suspect the ripple effect on date dependent functions throughout the code if this were to be implemented would be horrendous but we can only hope. [;)]

[witpqs]

I was thinking about something like that when I wrote my reply, but I wasn't sure what is more common. Other considerations too: something like 2009-01-17 allows for easy sorting by date. Obviously in WITP that might apply most to saved reports or whatever.

Damn, it just occurred to me that all that blood rushing to your brain might be making you smarter. Remind me not to PBEM with anybody in the southern hemisphere.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Reg

What's this 'Fall' thing anyway.... Around here when the leaves fall off the trees, we call that a drought!!!

Originally coming from New England (yeah, I know, can't we think up our own names?!) we had such insightful phrases as "The sun is hot today." (Well ya, brainiac, several thousand degrees on the surface.)

Until recently I lived in Southern California. One time a few years ago - I swear I am not making this up or exaggerating in any way - the local TV stations were on "Storm Watch" waiting on a little rain (not too much). One of them had a reporter out on the street somewhere. They were cutting to reporters, then came his turn. Nothing eventful, so they went to the next one. THEN, they cut back to him in emergency fashion as he proclaimed into the mike "The rain is coming down and it is hitting the pavement, the rain is hitting the pavement, it is hitting the pavement!!!"

So, if I talk funny - you understand.

I now return control of this thread to the Admiral's Edition.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: vettim89
I have seen many posts about mods/scenarios where the Japanese wartime economy and ship building programs are completely turned on their heads are far as the true reality. Yet, those of us who would like to see the "Go North" strategy explored are told that is pure fantasy and the its unrealistic that the US would stay out of the war. WHe England was on the ropes in the summer of 1940, the US did not enter the war. When all of Europe fell under Nazi domination, the US did not go to war. WHen Hitler invaded the USSR, the US did not go to war. So what makes people think that the US would have automatically gone to war if the Japanese attacked Malaya and the NEI or the USSR?

Every event you mention brought US opinion closer to "I guess we're going to have to get involved". Remember the "Two Ocean Navy" bill was passed in 1940, and suplemented in 1941. And Aircraft production was ramping up rapidly before the war came to the US. America even implimented the Draft in 1940. Not to say American's were eager to get into the fray, but the large majority had accepted it's inevitability.

And, sad though it is to say, don't forget racism in the case of the Japanese. Roosevelt was able to get away with a lot of aggresive political and economic moves against Japan because of their barbaric actions in China and a general dislike of Japan by the American Public.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: vettim89
I have seen many posts about mods/scenarios where the Japanese wartime economy and ship building programs are completely turned on their heads are far as the true reality. Yet, those of us who would like to see the "Go North" strategy explored are told that is pure fantasy and the its unrealistic that the US would stay out of the war. WHe England was on the ropes in the summer of 1940, the US did not enter the war. When all of Europe fell under Nazi domination, the US did not go to war. WHen Hitler invaded the USSR, the US did not go to war. So what makes people think that the US would have automatically gone to war if the Japanese attacked Malaya and the NEI or the USSR?

I guess it's just how the game engine works. It will not support a 'Go North' approach. It won't support anything other than what actually happened.

Maybe the imperitives of the players are forcing the developers to come up with reasons why this, or that, strategy is unrealistic. Irregardless, whether the strategy is valid or not, this is a computer game and what you see, is what you get.

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Reg

What's this 'Fall' thing anyway.... Around here when the leaves fall off the trees, we call that a drought!!!

Originally coming from New England (yeah, I know, can't we think up our own names?!) we had such insightful phrases as "The sun is hot today." (Well ya, brainiac, several thousand degrees on the surface.)

Until recently I lived in Southern California. One time a few years ago - I swear I am not making this up or exaggerating in any way - the local TV stations were on "Storm Watch" waiting on a little rain (not too much). One of them had a reporter out on the street somewhere. They were cutting to reporters, then came his turn. Nothing eventful, so they went to the next one. THEN, they cut back to him in emergency fashion as he proclaimed into the mike "The rain is coming down and it is hitting the pavement, the rain is hitting the pavement, it is hitting the pavement!!!"

So, if I talk funny - you understand.

I now return control of this thread to the Admiral's Edition.

In Memphis, they close schools once or twice each year if it MIGHT snow. And reporters are sent out to interview us if the temperature creeps close to single digits, for one day.

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: vettim89
I have seen many posts about mods/scenarios where the Japanese wartime economy and ship building programs are completely turned on their heads are far as the true reality. Yet, those of us who would like to see the "Go North" strategy explored are told that is pure fantasy and the its unrealistic that the US would stay out of the war. WHe England was on the ropes in the summer of 1940, the US did not enter the war. When all of Europe fell under Nazi domination, the US did not go to war. WHen Hitler invaded the USSR, the US did not go to war. So what makes people think that the US would have automatically gone to war if the Japanese attacked Malaya and the NEI or the USSR?

I guess it's just how the game engine works. It will not support a 'Go North' approach. It won't support anything other than what actually happened.

Maybe the imperitives of the players are forcing the developers to come up with reasons why this, or that, strategy is unrealistic. Irregardless, whether the strategy is valid or not, this is a computer game and what you see, is what you get.

As the map stands it is not a viable strategy anyway. There is not enough OIL up north to meet Japan's needs. My other favorite alternative strategy is the "No PH Strategy". Japan does not attack US forces at all. Again the naysayers would say the US would be involved within a few weeks anyway. I am not so sure about that. If the loss of Reuben James did not trigger a war with Germany, why would say the loss of Houston or Boise do so with Japan. Oh, and how would Roosevelt explain to the American public how US ships were being sunk when the US was not at war with Japan. Its pure conjecture but I think a majority of US citizens were content on being the Arsenal of Democracy late in 1941. The losses the US suffered early in the war were accepted because of the Ubernationalism generated by PH. How would these losses be greeted when the US was the one "picking the fight". Just some points for contemplation

[Don Bowen]

Gentlemen

Back to the thread subject.

[TMFoss]

To keep the U.S. out of the war for any appreciable period of time, Japan would have had to not just cancel the attack on PH, but also avoid U.S. territory in the PI, Wake, and Guam. An attack on a ship could be blamed on an overly aggressive commander or a ship being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but an invasion or coordinated air attack (land or carrier based) requires planning and could be perceived as nothing but an overt act of war. Additionally, Australia was increasingly looking to the U.S. for security assurances in the years preceding hostilities with Japan. I do not recall if there were any security treaties in effect at that time (I am too lazy to look it up right now). I cannot see the U.S. staying out of the fight if Australia was directly threatened. All that said, it was perceived as likely that the U.S. would get involved sooner rather than later. Anyway, what fun would the game be without the U.S involvement?

Here in central California, it was 67 (19.5 C), sunny, and what is this thing you call rain?

[rockmedic109]

Not securing the Philippines would have left the SLOC to SRA vulnerable to U.S. air power based in the Philippines.  As the Japanese knew that war with the U.S. was inevitable, I doubt that Japan would have launched an attack on the SRA without neutralizing the Philippines.  It doesn't make any sense to rely on the goodwill or good intentions of a country that you know that you will soon be at war with.

[Terminus]

This is not what this thread is for.

[khyberbill]

I am not sure if this is the right thread for the question, or if the question is already answered. If the wrong thread, then please direct me to the right thread.

Currently, if Japan advances beyond a certain point in North America, the arrival of certain ground units is immediate and the arrival of others is advanced by 180 days. Has any consideration been given to applying these rules to an invasion of India by Japan, especially if before a certain date? I have no idea what Churchill would have done if Calcutta was invaded in Jan or Feb or 42, but I doubt if upgrading of fighters etc would have waited until May of 42.