When is enough..well...enough?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: Barb

I think it is possible to say AE is something like "Datadisc" to the game. Am I right?

A data disk, an art disk and a code disk, all three in one disk!!!
[:D]

Ah, it's a discus throw!

[Yamato hugger]

Wouldnt that be tricus? [:D]

[Kwik E Mart]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

AE isnt really a mod, and it isnt really a patch. In some circumstances its like a super CHS, but far more accurate. AE uses the same basic engine WitP does, so in a lot of ways it will look similar and it would be easy to mistake this for it being a mod. WitP is required to be installed on your machine because thats what Matrix wants. The dev team has no say in that and frankly I dont see a problem with that. But that doesnt mean it is a mod of WitP - it isnt. It is a stand alone game.

(bold and italics mine)

I'm failing to see the logic. If AE is a "stand alone game", then why does Matrix insist that WiTP be a prerequisite? I know, I know - because they can. [8|]

I'm thinking of designing a game based on chess. The number of squares are doubled, there are new pieces introduced and the hierarchy of which pieces can defeat opposing pieces has changed. But you need the original first. [;)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Wouldnt that be tricus? [:D]

It's enough to give a guy tricusdiscusphobia. [&:]

[Halsey]

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

AE isnt really a mod, and it isnt really a patch. In some circumstances its like a super CHS, but far more accurate. AE uses the same basic engine WitP does, so in a lot of ways it will look similar and it would be easy to mistake this for it being a mod. WitP is required to be installed on your machine because thats what Matrix wants. The dev team has no say in that and frankly I dont see a problem with that. But that doesnt mean it is a mod of WitP - it isnt. It is a stand alone game.

(bold and italics mine)

I'm failing to see the logic. If AE is a "stand alone game", then why does Matrix insist that WiTP be a prerequisite? I know, I know - because they can. [8|]

I'm thinking of designing a game based on chess. The number of squares are doubled, there are new pieces introduced and the hierarchy of which pieces can defeat opposing pieces has changed. But you need the original first. [;)]

WITP is the demo you must purchase to play AE.[:D]

Honestly, if you can handle WITP, AE isn't all that hard to adjust to.[;)]

[janh]

I must admit this seems to be a very subjective discussion in this thread.
Anyway, I agree and disagree with madgamer at the same time. Indeed, more micromanaging is likely tedious, but it appears that the new feature will improve realism -- that's pretty much all I care about in first order approximation. But that's now where I have to agree with madgamer:

I have been eyeing with WITP(1) for a while, but always was held back by the "lacking" AI. I have too little time for playing PBEM in a reliable fashion, and further more long-time experience with other online games have convinced me that "playing" and "simulating realistically" are two different things. It just requires players with a good knowledge of history and the will to behave within that frame rather than making (mis-)use of glitches/simplifications etc. It's hard to understand what I mean, I guess. Let's say most people that are "just playing" would taking more risks and care less about losses than someone "taking it more serious". Actually the degree of detail and micromanaging seem to limit that a bit -- it is much more evident in other "games" (like American civil war battles, where you could apply modern day tactics of continuous pressure and attack depth, but that would be far from the historic military dogmas of that time, where troops stayed idle for major parts of battles -- just an unsatisfying experience in the end).

Therefore the main thing I am hoping for is a much better AI in AE. I'll keep watching the forum and hope for some encouraging AAR against AI once AE is out, which would surely "force" me to buy it...

Anyway, no doubt an impressive undertaking that you guys started with WITP and AE!

[2ndACR]

I am willing to bet/hope that AE is priced below WITP so it will be just like all the other expansions of other games. Original cost 49.99 and expansion 29.99. (prices are for non-WITP games) because we all know WITP is much more than that and worth every penny.
 
Hopefully AE will be 49.99 or less. But will buy regardless.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Iridium

I disagree, a WitP 2 would have require far more time and effort to produce since it would have needed a new engine from the ground up and a complete rebuild. I gonna go out on a limb and say the sheer manhours of labor spent on AE is small in comparison to the needs of WitP 2.

Perhaps someone who actually knows the size of the effort will elaborate.

Nobody has any idea of what the needs of WitP 2 are, because WitP 2 only exists in the fevered imaginings of some individuals on this forum.

[foliveti]

That is also what you have been saying about AE.

[witpqs]

That's "feverish" imaginings! [:D]

[BShaftoe]

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Nobody has any idea of what the needs of WitP 2 are, because WitP 2 only exists in the fevered imaginings of some individuals on this forum.

No difference to AE, then.


(Sorry, had to say it )

[Yamato hugger]

Whats AE?

[LargeSlowTarget]

So AE is a "Stand-Alone-Game" that requires another "Stand-Alone-Game"? [&:]

So we may call it "Stand-Alone-Together-Game" or "Stand-Side-by-Side-Game" or a "Linked/Dependent/Software-bonded-Stand-Alone-Game"?

Flies in the face of logic... But who cares - we want it, whatever it is called or requires!

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

So AE is a "Stand-Alone-Game" that requires another "Stand-Alone-Game"? [&:]

So we may call it "Stand-Alone-Together-Game" or "Stand-Side-by-Side-Game" or a "Linked/Dependent/Software-bonded-Stand-Alone-Game"?

Flies in the face of logic... But who cares - we want it, whatever it is called or requires!

That's some catch...that "Catch 22"....

[witpqs]

LST,

Where is your sig line??? [&:]

[Kwik E Mart]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

LST,

Where is your sig line??? [&:]

He's designing another "stand-alone" version... [X(]

[Oldguard1970]

Hi Janh,

When I bought WITP, I played against the AI. It was a mighty fine "training tool"! In fact, it hurt me...lots. I played it for weeks. Finally, I got the hang of game mechanics, and, sadly, I came to know the AI's strategy.

At that point I was able to clobber the AI. So, I had to impose "house rules" on myself to ensure that I didn't take too much advantage of my knowledge of the AI.

All in all, I got a very satisfactory number of "playing hours per dollar" just by playing the AI.

I love this game... imperfections and all!

ORIGINAL: janh

I must admit this seems to be a very subjective discussion in this thread.
Anyway, I agree and disagree with madgamer at the same time. Indeed, more micromanaging is likely tedious, but it appears that the new feature will improve realism -- that's pretty much all I care about in first order approximation. But that's now where I have to agree with madgamer:

I have been eyeing with WITP(1) for a while, but always was held back by the "lacking" AI. I have too little time for playing PBEM in a reliable fashion, and further more long-time experience with other online games have convinced me that "playing" and "simulating realistically" are two different things. It just requires players with a good knowledge of history and the will to behave within that frame rather than making (mis-)use of glitches/simplifications etc. It's hard to understand what I mean, I guess. Let's say most people that are "just playing" would taking more risks and care less about losses than someone "taking it more serious". Actually the degree of detail and micromanaging seem to limit that a bit -- it is much more evident in other "games" (like American civil war battles, where you could apply modern day tactics of continuous pressure and attack depth, but that would be far from the historic military dogmas of that time, where troops stayed idle for major parts of battles -- just an unsatisfying experience in the end).

Therefore the main thing I am hoping for is a much better AI in AE. I'll keep watching the forum and hope for some encouraging AAR against AI once AE is out, which would surely "force" me to buy it...

Anyway, no doubt an impressive undertaking that you guys started with WITP and AE!

[Apollo11]

DELETED

P.S.
Wrong SUB-Forum... still with cold/flu... [:(]

[madgamer2]

I hope what you say is true and the possibility of my actually being able to play AE is a real possible. Its hard to give up something you love because it appears to be to difficult to play, or take to much time, or one of many other reasons that could keep me from playing.
I am looking forward to AE...honest.

[madgamer2]

as usual I find your posts to be interesting and to the point with great care taken to state your view. I have never been good with the written word and at times I don't even understand my own posts. I will never have the ability of some of the members of this forum but it is nice to read those who make things abit more clear.

Madgamer