And yet ANOTHER naval problem

WW2: Road to Victory is the first grand strategy release from IQ Software/Wastelands Interactive, which covers World War II in Europe and the Mediterranean. Hex-based and Turn-based, it allows you to choose any combination of Axis, Allied, Neutral, Major or Minor countries to play and gives you full control over production, diplomacy, land, air and naval strategy. Start your campaign in 1939, 1940 or 1941 and see if you can better the results of your historical counterparts. A series of historical events and choices add flavor and strategic options for great replayability.
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Michael the Pole
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And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by Michael the Pole »

This is one of those things that, like the discovery of atomic explosives, you wonder if it should be disclosed. But in the interest of everyone, I hope, I am going to destroy the naval game.[X(] Please understand that the facts as outlined below have been repeatedly confirmed and are totally accurate.
As you know Glenn (Balto of fame and German haplessness) and I are playing a 1939 campaign, mostly to investigate the effect of the "Uxbridge Variation." I am playing the Allies, and Balto, who maintains that he has no knowledge or interest in the current naval rules is quite correctly hiding the Axis navies (which I always do until the French Navy has gone into the dumper.)
Sometime in the Spring of 1940, as the above mentioned cheese eating surrender monkeys were going the way of all flesh, and since the BEF had been totally wiped out in a 3:1 attempt to pinch off a pnzgrn division on the first turn of Fall Gelb, and since the US and the USSR were completely paralized, I was REALLY bored. Thinking of some way to get Glenn off-balance, I loaded up two British infantry division in amphibs, and an infantry corps onto transports, and headed East to invade Denmark. (Being an unexperienced victim of playing the Allies, I didn't realize that the stupid, anal retentive house rules prevented the Allies from invading a neutral country. Apparently, only the evil Nazis can violate the laws of neutrality, despite the English/French attempt to violate Norway's in 1940.)
So, when I was unable to invade Denmark, and mostly just to reassure myself that I was, in fact, doing the invasion spell correctly, I told the game to invade a hex adjacent to Kiel. The next thing I knew, the entire Kreigsmarine (and I do mean every last thing that would float) had sortied and offered battle to my invasion force. I stress that Glenn never gave them a single order, save for his initial orders to hide in Wilhelmshaven!
Unfortunately for Glenn, I am a great believer in that old German adage of "not driblets, masses!," and had gathered evry Allied ship that I could get into the North Sea. The total was somewher around 55+, with only 6 or 7 being subs. The result was spectacular, if unfortunate for the Germans, and the only thing now remaining of the scnitzel-eaters is a large oil slick and a bad smell. After the naval "battle" the game reverted to the main map, with no indication that I had ordered an invasion. Not being a suicidal idiot (unlike the AI) I decided not to invade Germany with a 1-4 infantry division, and my fleet immediately set sail for the Med, to try this new method of naval intervention against the Wops. (BTW, it worked perfectly. There is now a large ecological problem in the Bay of Naples -- GREAT scuba diving, however!)
Being an honorable and considerate opponent, I of course wanted to comiserate with Glenn (ha!) so I dropped him a note when I uploaded my turn to him. It's a good thing that I did, because he had no idea that ANYTHING had happened. Nothing in the reports, no indication to the German player that the AI had taken control of his entire navy and then lost it (kind of like your teenager "borrowing" the family car and leaving it wrapped around a large tree somewhere,) and best of all, NO NAVY.
Glenn and I don't know if these events qualify as a bug (that is an unintended consequence of poorly written code,) but if they don't, the naval problem is finally, utterly and completely solved, for once and forever! Because it is now possible to completely wipe the Axis navy off the map in as little time as it takes to launch a feint invasion in all the sea zones that they can hide in.
Ain't it GRAND!
"One scoundrel is a disgrace, two is a law-firm, and three or more is a Congress." B. Franklin

Mike

A tribute to my heroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRU2tlE5m8
balto
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by balto »

"kind of like your teenager "borrowing" the family car and leaving it wrapped around a large tree somewhere."  haha, that is great.
gwgardner
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by gwgardner »

Do I understand it right, that the German navy sortied in the middle of your turn? And did it happen because you actually placed an invading force on German soil adjacent to Kiel?


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cpdeyoung
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by cpdeyoung »

Dear Mike,

This is a problem which needs to be fixed.  An invasion event should prompt the "invaded" player to respond as they wish with their naval forces. I have seen the behavior in games against the AI.  I do recommend Doomtrader look at a "invaded" response query.  I know he has his plate full with all the changes he is looking at, but this is one that needs to be addressed.

Chuck
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Michael the Pole
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by Michael the Pole »

Amen. Chuck, do you recomend that Glenn and I copy original post to Bug Line, or are we ok here?
"One scoundrel is a disgrace, two is a law-firm, and three or more is a Congress." B. Franklin

Mike

A tribute to my heroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRU2tlE5m8
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Michael the Pole
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by Michael the Pole »

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

Do I understand it right, that the German navy sortied in the middle of your turn? And did it happen because you actually placed an invading force on German soil adjacent to Kiel?


Gary, sortie occuried as soon as I ordered invasion of Germany and identified invading unit. I only ordered invasion. After naval "battle" game went back to its pre-invasion state. I would have had to re-order invasion to actually carry it out.
"One scoundrel is a disgrace, two is a law-firm, and three or more is a Congress." B. Franklin

Mike

A tribute to my heroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRU2tlE5m8
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cpdeyoung
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by cpdeyoung »

Dear Mike,
 
I will put in a bug report.  I will quote your posts, but I am sure Doom will see them here too.
 
I have proposed to Gary that the phasing player make a copy of fleets.csv just before any attempted invasion.  If the "invaded" players forces sortie we will notify that player and ask if he wishes to respond.  If not we will save the game, copy the saved copy of fleets.csv over the flawed one, and reload the game with all fleets as they were pre-battle.  It may be necessary to inform them that the naval battle resulted in the loss of the invading force, which will be a problem.  It is not a great answer, but might work until the next version.
 
Chuck
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Michael the Pole
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by Michael the Pole »

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

Dear Mike,

I will put in a bug report.  I will quote your posts, but I am sure Doom will see them here too.

I have proposed to Gary that the phasing player make a copy of fleets.csv just before any attempted invasion.  If the "invaded" players forces sortie we will notify that player and ask if he wishes to respond.  If not we will save the game, copy the saved copy of fleets.csv over the flawed one, and reload the game with all fleets as they were pre-battle.  It may be necessary to inform them that the naval battle resulted in the loss of the invading force, which will be a problem.  It is not a great answer, but might work until the next version.

Chuck

Thanks, Chuck.
As to your proposed fix, God's teeth, man, I dont DO programing! [:'(]
"One scoundrel is a disgrace, two is a law-firm, and three or more is a Congress." B. Franklin

Mike

A tribute to my heroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRU2tlE5m8
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by doomtrader »

So, you guys wan't to decide should the defender's fleet attack invader before the invasion?
 
 
And the raport thingy is already at the TODO list
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Michael the Pole
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RE: And yet ANOTHER naval problem

Post by Michael the Pole »

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

So, you guys wan't to decide should the defender's fleet attack invader before the invasion?


And the raport thingy is already at the TODO list

Dear Doom,
Yeah, that seems to be the reasonable thing to do. The defending player must have some way to gauge the aproximate size of the opposing fleet (which he would have espescially if he had aircraft in the sea zone.) Then he would have to decide if it was in his interest to oppose the landing, particularly if facing overwhelming odds.
In the case presented, there would be no reason to sacrifice the Axis navies, since, in Bismark's words, "If the British invaded Northern Germany (he) would just send the police to arrest them."
Thanks for the rapid response, [&o]
"One scoundrel is a disgrace, two is a law-firm, and three or more is a Congress." B. Franklin

Mike

A tribute to my heroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRU2tlE5m8
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