Patriotism and being a JFB.

[grraven2004]

I wish to ask the opinion of people here about gaming with the "bad guys"

First I want to say that I am a steadfast patriot of the United States. If I had been able to at the tender age of 18 I would have joined the US Navy. I have a deep love for the United States. I support our troops and go out of my way to thank anyone I see in uniform. I even, if I am able, will buy them a drink or a meal but most of our service people just say thanks and a thankyou is enough for them.

With that said I also since the age of 15 have been facinated with all things Japanese and to a lesser extent Germany. I love the Shogun era of Japan and have dabbled in Japanese history when I find the time. I love playing Japan in WiTP. I have also tended to go for Germany in just about any war game that has them in it unless Japan is also in it then I will always go for Japan. I even like Klingons and the Empire in the respective sci fi genres.

My mother usually got upset with me about this and always said I was killing off my ancestors. I in later years found that she was mostly joking but underneath I really believe it bothers her.

I know we have alot of active and retired service personnel that play this and other games. How do you all feel about someone playing against what you guys have sacrificed for and believe in?

Thank You all

[anarchyintheuk]

Love the Shogun era myself.

I favor playing the side who has the better toys . . . Germany and Russia in tank warfare, Allied sea power and air power in the Pacific, etc.

I used to kid my dad about my car (it's a Mitsubishi) with something about 'from the fine people who brought you the zero'. He always responded about Westinghouse products bought in Japan and Univeristy of Chicago alums living there. I think he had a fair point.

[niceguy2005]

With all due respect, it's a game.  The only ones that can truly know what it's like to fight and die for a cause are the ones that did it.

Completely OT, but I noticed the quote in your statement in your sig block...and that fact that you live in Cuyahoga Falls...I'm guessing that you're too young to remember when the river burned...I'm also guessing you don't have a science background.

[Mike Solli]

I love the underdog.  I will never play the Allies in WitP.  That being said, I am a 21 year National Guard veteran.  [:D]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

With all due respect, it's a game.  The only ones that can truly know what it's like to fight and die for a cause are the ones that did it.

Completely OT, but I noticed the quote in your statement in your sig block...and that fact that you live in Cuyahoga Falls...I'm guessing that you're too young to remember when the river burned...I'm also guessing you don't have a science background.

Funny you remember that, Niceguy. I was there. I also remember the mayor that burned. Mayor Perk's hair caught fire back in that era. [:D] Don't worry, it wasn't bad enough to hurt him. It was a lot of fun back then growing up and having the river and the mayor that burned. [:D]

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I love the underdog.  I will never play the Allies in WitP.  That being said, I am a 21 year National Guard veteran.  [:D]

A spy know doubt for when the sun rises again. [:'(]

[Mike Solli]

LOL [:D]

[Big B]

This is only a game - I don't see why having fun as a JFB should matter at all.

As a matter of fact, we are taught that the best thing about being an American is the right to say and think what you want...that's supposed to be our core value.

So, if the stuff the bad guys had looks cool, root for them in the gaming world. People also find real crime fascinating - judging by television...that doesn't mean they are criminals. [;)]


My 2c

[Q-Ball]

I agree with the sentiments, it's just a game!

Check out my auto-sig.......in real life, the Allies were the good guys IMO, period. And we must honor the sacrifice of all veterans.

But in WITP.......I want to crush the virtual 41st US Div.

[grraven2004]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

With all due respect, it's a game.  The only ones that can truly know what it's like to fight and die for a cause are the ones that did it.

Completely OT, but I noticed the quote in your statement in your sig block...and that fact that you live in Cuyahoga Falls...I'm guessing that you're too young to remember when the river burned...I'm also guessing you don't have a science background.

Niceguy.

I am origanally from the State of Washington. No I don't have a science background just putting my opinion out there is all.

[Canoerebel]

I always wanna play the cool side - you know, the Allies in WWII, the Confederates in the Civil War, and the British Loyalists in the American Revolution.
 
"Dances with Wolves," "Cold Mountain," and "The Patriot":  *ack*

[Mynok]

The Elves in War of the Ring. [:'(]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: grraven2004
I am origanally from the State of Washington. No I don't have a science background just putting my opinion out there is all.

As a side note, no offense intended but we have a rule against politics and political sigs, which is enforced across the spectrum whenever we actually notice such. Please do change your sig as this isn't the place to try to start discussions about politics (yes, the debate around global warming counts as politics).

Thanks.

Regards,

- Erk

[AW1Steve]

In a game , there is no "good guy" or "bad guy". In chess , do we call the black peices "bad guys"?  A game by defination, or at least should be , "not real life". Most of us play the game as an escape from real life. Being a JFB can mean many things . Maybe you are facinated by the Japanese. Maybe their planes or ships have your intrest.Maybe you just like to root for the under-dogs. Or simply want to do something different. Patriotism should not enter into the matter. I simcerely hope that NO ONE on this forum ever starts acting like the weirdo's in college who got so wrapped up in D&D that they threatened other players who "killed their characters" in the game.
 I like to play AFB (but do sometimes play as Japan, as I am in my PBEM with Juan G) mainly because I've always liked the "what-if" possibilities. I can easily imagine a JFB feeling the same way from the opposite point of view. So , as we generally avoid politics and religion , maybe we should consider questioning someones patriotism in the same spirit. This is a game. It's not real. Let's just have fun. (That's not to say that we can't hold grudges.....Bobo, Sprior, I'm coming for you guys! [:D])....[:)]

[m10bob]

This is a game as Niceguy sez. I doubt more than a very few play the game with any thought to personal politics or real-life nationalistic feeling. If I did, I would be a huge hypocrite, as I had relatives in every theater of that war.
I might play the Japanese more often if the manufacturing and supply was not such a demanding ogre!

Personally, I play to learn, I play to keep my old mind active, and ownership of this game is the ticket to this forum,(though some non-players CREEP in to verbalize their opinions.)

[Dili]

In strategic games i usually play for the side that is more difficult to play. That means playing for odious regimes too. A classic case of is that the only game with Germans that i don't play the German side is France40. In that i always try to do much better than Gamelin and all silly French Generals.
But in simulations i usually played for the good side...hehe i think is that i am not a such good simulator(i haveny't a joystick so it explains a bit).

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: grraven2004

I wish to ask the opinion of people here about gaming with the "bad guys"

First I want to say that I am a steadfast patriot of the United States. If I had been able to at the tender age of 18 I would have joined the US Navy. I have a deep love for the United States. I support our troops and go out of my way to thank anyone I see in uniform. I even, if I am able, will buy them a drink or a meal but most of our service people just say thanks and a thankyou is enough for them.

With that said I also since the age of 15 have been facinated with all things Japanese and to a lesser extent Germany. I love the Shogun era of Japan and have dabbled in Japanese history when I find the time. I love playing Japan in WiTP. I have also tended to go for Germany in just about any war game that has them in it unless Japan is also in it then I will always go for Japan. I even like Klingons and the Empire in the respective sci fi genres.

It's supposed to be a simulation game of the Pacific War..., and as such there are no "bad guys", just opponants. Some prefer to play one side or the other, often due to personal feelings; but there is nothing inherantly "good" or "bad" about the pixels that make up the game.

There was (and probably still is) an endless discussion between JFB's and AFB's over the programming decisions made by 2by3 originally, and others since---and a lot of the original version's "garbage" has been disposed of over the years. More will "bite the dust" when AE is released. I wouldn't worry about it unless your opponant starts announcing "the Rape of Changsha" is now commencing. Then you might want to question his sanity, or his sense of humor. [8D]

[wild_Willie2]

It doesn't matter which side you play as, as already stated, it's just a game. Playing a game as the "bad guy" doesn't necessary mean that you also sympathize for the "bad guy's” political/ideological ideas. As a kid I always loved Germanys WOII hardware, they had the coolest tanks and planes. This did not mean that I sympathized with the German ideas of that time. Also, on must remember that most acts of "evil" committed during this time where committed by a relative small group of people. There are entire German Divisions that were never reported of having committed war crimes/ atrocities while others where notoriously bad. Both sides in a conflict do bad stuff, some of Patton’s divisions almost never took German prisoners while adjacent divisions took hordes. This doesn't mean that the entire US war machine was bad\evil, only that there are rotten apples everywhere.

So don't feel bad for liking a specific time/area/culture because there were some politically/morally incorrect figures/event that happened during that time. Once should however not close one's eyes for the things that happened in that time/area/culture that are the cause of that politically/moral sensibility....

[mdiehl]

Anyhow, "JFB" has been distorted from it's true meaning. A penchant for playing the underdog or even the Japanese does not make one a "Japanese fanboy."

A willingness to disregard historical facts and ignore or dismiss performance metrics in favor of blind advocacy of the superiority of Axis equipment or personnel is the hallmark of an "Axis Fanboy." Without being specific, I think it accurately describes perhaps a dozen regular contributors to the WitP forums.

[Iridium]

I have always liked playing as the underdog. Japan did many things I disagree with during WWII but I find their struggle very interesting. Doing as much as possible with the limited resources at their disposal etc.