playable yet? Part II

[pzgndr]

Why do you have such a problem with people giving an honest opinion about a game they have spent good money on?? Doesn't that alone give them the right to voice their opinion?

I do so hate repeating myself for those who don't get it the first, second or third time, but here goes...

Allow me to be clear. A person's right to complain is not the issue. The validity of any of the complaints is not the issue. I don't disagree with any of the bug reports. I don't disagree that develepment of this game could have been different, could have been better. With regard to Neverman in particular, I agree that classic EiA OOB scenarios should be developed, that TCP/IP play be implemented, and most of the other issues that he has raised be resolved. But, all of these issues have been raised and discussed, and IMHO adequately addressed; i.e., Marshall Ellis and Matrix Games have acknowledged the issues, resolved most of them already, and are committed to fixing the remaining issues. The thing is, it will take time to fix all of those remaining issues and players need to be patient. There is no alternative. Whining and complaining repeatedly with increasing frequency and being more vocal about it each time accomplishes absolutely nothing. That is not "venting"; that is something else entirely and it is uncalled for. And the rest of us do not have to put up with it.

NeverMan, you have gone well beyond just "giving an honest opinion." You bash. You bash repeatedly, and you do so in your own insulting and demeaning manner. It is uncalled for. Poor poor you. What I don't understand is why Matrix Games continues to tolerate this nonsense. [&:]

Once upon a time I spent my good money on Hearts of Iron. I didn't like it. I'll note that others who did not like it and posted negatively on the Paradox forums had their threads ruthlessly deleted and usually got themselves banned. It was a technique. I was hopeful that Hearts of Iron II would be better. I spent good money on that one too and didn't like it. Oh well. Did I plant myself on the Paradox forum and repeatedly bash the developers and the game company? No. My bad. Caveat emptor, yes? [;)]

Alright. Your turn.

[mr.godo]

Tic tac toe is playable. Are you going to set up a tournament with your friends so you can see who the best tic-tac-toe player is? I don't think so. But it's playable, right?

This game is not, in my opinion, a worthwhile representation of EiA. There's my honest opinion as a gamer and a software tester.

(Incidentally, I have both HoI and HoI2. World War II by the minute. That's a niche game. It's very abstract. THAT is a complex game. You bought the first one, didnt' like it, and then bought the second one and didn't like that either? Fool me once...)

From the Matrix website, the description of EiA claims it is the officially licensed version. While one of the reviews is 404, the other is still there and is written by some armchair boardgamer.

"The Matrix Games version of EIA keeps the boardgame phases intact; diplomacy, reinforcement, naval, ground and once every three turns an economic phase."

Hmm. Ground. "The Ground Phase". Maybe he means "Land". I don't think they left the "Diplomacy" phase intact.

Anyway, my point is that this is advertised as EiA and there are a number of individuals who are not happy with the implementation. EiA deserves better than this.

Caveat emptor in spades.

[Thresh]

I think quite a few people have the definition of "Officially Licensed Version" wrong.

It does not always mean a complete carbon copy of the board game, no matter how much some of us may want it to be.

Yes, quite a few of us are not happy with the game.  Some of us are doing what we can to help.  Repeatedly posting on the forum how much you don't like the game for what it isn't is not help. 

Todd

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Thresh

I think quite a few people have the definition of "Officially Licensed Version" wrong.

It does not always mean a complete carbon copy of the board game, no matter how much some of us may want it to be.

Yes, quite a few of us are not happy with the game.  Some of us are doing what we can to help.  Repeatedly posting on the forum how much you don't like the game for what it isn't is not help. 

Todd

So not voicing your opinion would help? Or should we all just agree that we love the game with all our heart and nothing should change?

How do you think things change? They change by people who want change voicing their opinions.

One of the MAJOR problems with this game is that NOT ENOUGH people voiced their opinions years ago and now we have an EiA/EiH hybrid that most are unhappy with. You're right, I guess we should just be thankful for what we get and just stfu...

[borner]

no, it mostly does not. However, when others tell pepople they do not have a right to complain, or say they think the game is good as is, that is bound to get a reaction from some.
 
The game is getting better. I think for the most part, as I have said before, Matrix understands the mistake they made in going with "EiH" instead of trying to get as close to EiA as possible. I will lay odds that once the "classic" senario is ready, 80%+ of the new games started will be that version. There are still bugs, but these are getting fewer. Everyone is entitled to an opinion if this is ready to play or not, and free to express it. If you are tired of reading the same thing over and over, well.............
 
 
 
 

[Thresh]

Neverman,

I dated a girl one.  Nice girl,until she went of her meds and went psycho.  I woke up one early morning, about four AM, and she was in the apartment complex parking lot beating the crap out of a car with a Lousiville slugger.  She had already slashed the tires, and she was screeching at the top of her lungs how much she loved me and what a mistake I was making by breaking up with her as she smashed every window.  As if somehow slashing the tires and beating the crap out of a defesneless car was supposed to get me to change my mind and say "Hey, the girls a psycho freak, but she cares!  What was I thinking when I broke up with her?!?"


I get that you dont like the current iteration of the game.  I get that you don't like past iterations, and am reasonably sure you won't like future versions.  That is your opinion, which you have expressed repeatedly.  But I sincerely doubt expressing it the way you have chosen to do so is going  to cause  Marshall to sit up inbed at three AM, slao hishead in disgust and say "Dammit, Neverman was right all along, lets scrap seven years hard work and start over from square one!"

This game could be a lot better, and I think there are quite a few people working to make it better.

Hey, it could always be worse...

Todd

[pzgndr]

So not voicing your opinion would help? Or should we all just agree that we love the game with all our heart and nothing should change?

(sigh) I'll go out on a limb here. I'll make a scientific wild-ass guess and boldly assert that nobody, absolutely nobody, would agree that the game as-is is a perfect finished product and that nothing should change. I'll further assert that everyone would like to see all issues on the bug tracker list resolved and working smoothly. So that everyone - the pbemers, tcp/ipers, hotseaters and solitairists - the EiA classicists, the EiHers and the off-the-wall-modders - everyone, should eventually find some modest satisfaction with the game. So why make such an asinine comment that some players don't feel any change is needed? [8|]

NeverMan, do you just not get it? The point is not about voicing opinions but the obnoxious manner you and a few others use to try to get your personal priorities to the top of the list, and the almost-daily hissy fit you throw because the toy you bought doesn't work right. Poor you. What the heck do you really expect to happen on a daily basis when you voice your "opinion" for the umpteenth time??

I guess we should just be thankful for what we get and just stfu...

No, just stfu, take a number, and wait your turn for game improvements like the rest of us are doing. It's bad enough being in this waiting room without having to put up with your nonsense. I note that others besides myself are also getting totally fed up with this. Your opinions have been voiced, acknowledged, and are on the list for resolution. If you have something brand new to add, then add it to the bug tracker list. Then chill out.

[Tarleton]

ORIGINAL: Thresh
<Snip brilliant freaking metaphor which has now entered my vocabulary>

Thresh, you are a philosopher for our modern age. I will now call that type of behaviour "Psycho 4 AM girl-Logic".

Pat

[iamspamus]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

So not voicing your opinion would help? Or should we all just agree that we love the game with all our heart and nothing should change?

(sigh) I'll go out on a limb here. I'll make a scientific wild-ass guess and boldly assert that nobody, absolutely nobody, would agree that the game as-is is a perfect finished product and that nothing should change. I'll further assert that everyone would like to see all issues on the bug tracker list resolved and working smoothly. So that everyone - the pbemers, tcp/ipers, hotseaters and solitairists - the EiA classicists, the EiHers and the off-the-wall-modders - everyone, should eventually find some modest satisfaction with the game. So why make such an asinine comment that some players don't feel any change is needed? [8|]

NeverMan, do you just not get it? The point is not about voicing opinions but the obnoxious manner you and a few others use to try to get your personal priorities to the top of the list, and the almost-daily hissy fit you throw because the toy you bought doesn't work right. Poor you. What the heck do you really expect to happen on a daily basis when you voice your "opinion" for the umpteenth time??

I guess we should just be thankful for what we get and just stfu...

No, just stfu, take a number, and wait your turn for game improvements like the rest of us are doing. It's bad enough being in this waiting room without having to put up with your nonsense. I note that others besides myself are also getting totally fed up with this. Your opinions have been voiced, acknowledged, and are on the list for resolution. If you have something brand new to add, then add it to the bug tracker list. Then chill out.

"This game sucks" accomplishes nothing. "This game sucks, it could be better if ..." works. Neverman, you want a classic scenario. It's being worked on. Ok. So, let's hear the complaint AGAIN of the same thing. As someone said, you didn't like it in the beginning, you don't like it now, and I assume that you won't like it in the future...even with a "classic" EIA scenario.

THAT is what is irritating. Mardonius. HFJ and others say that they don't like some stuff and then proceed to make suggestions on what could change. Will all of the suggested changes be implemented? Possibly, but probably not. But giving constructive criticism EVEN IF YOU'RE UNHAPPY, rather than just repeating the "I hate this game" mantra, will go along way.

So, to close, no one is saying "you can't say what you want". Say whatever you want. But we also have the right to say what we want. So, if, in some people's opinion, the comments are demeaning, repetative, or non-constructive then we will continue to pound on them. Is that fair?

Jason

[NeverMan]

That's fair yes, but being insulting is not, which pzndgr has been time and time again.

On top of that, I have given TONS of constructive criticism to this game over the last FOUR YEARS, which most of you weren't even here for, so I'm not sure where that comes from but whatever.

THIS thread is about whether the game is playable and I STILL don't think it is. Everytime a new version comes out I am going to post here.

[pzgndr]

That's fair yes, but being insulting is not

Tell you what NeverMan. You stop being insulting towards this game, towards Marshall Ellis, towards Matrix Games, and towards the rest of us who are patiently waiting to see all of the remaining issues resolved, and start restricting yourself to constructive criticisms which help move this game along, and we can stop playing Whack-A-Mole. I'm going to check off the “Attempt Informal Peace” here and see what happens.

or

Your move?

[Thresh]

The big kicker is that it wasn't my car she was beating up on.

Now, the a$$ who parked in my spot didn;t think it was funny either, but hey...

Todd

ORIGINAL: Tarleton

ORIGINAL: Thresh
<Snip brilliant freaking metaphor which has now entered my vocabulary>

Thresh, you are a philosopher for our modern age. I will now call that type of behaviour "Psycho 4 AM girl-Logic".

Pat

[Thresh]

Well, I've been here since the beginning,before the game was even EiA, not under this screen name, but I've been here. Does that somehow mean my opinion on the subject should be considered more by the powers that be?

I know I had my hopes set to high, and while I like Mike Treasure and what he's done with EiH, with his involvement I was pretty sure what this game was becoming was not what I and probably a few many other people wanted it to be. I was disappointed when 1.0 came out, but I think it's made quite a few strides since then, and to their credit, Matrix hasn't stopped working on it. They could have kicked this project to the curb years ago, and only a very few people would have noticed.

Todd

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Thresh

Well, I've been here since the beginning,before the game was even EiA, not under this screen name, but I've been here. Does that somehow mean my opinion on the subject should be considered more by the powers that be?


Todd

Absolutely not, but it does mean that if I'm going to criticize your postings that I might want to take the time to read ALL of your posts before I say something to make myself look like an A$$!!!

[Thresh]

Neverman,

I get the impression that's its the considered opinion of many that no matter what your opinion, the way you choose to express it doesn't help your case.

I've got around 3K posts on another war gaming forum, and by no means am I going to suggest that you read every single one of them before responding to a post of mine on that forum should you decide to participate over there.

Todd

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

ORIGINAL: Thresh

Well, I've been here since the beginning,before the game was even EiA, not under this screen name, but I've been here. Does that somehow mean my opinion on the subject should be considered more by the powers that be?


Todd

Absolutely not, but it does mean that if I'm going to criticize your postings that I might want to take the time to read ALL of your posts before I say something to make myself look like an A$$!!!

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Thresh

Neverman,

I get the impression that's its the considered opinion of many that no matter what your opinion, the way you choose to express it doesn't help your case.

I've got around 3K posts on another war gaming forum, and by no means am I going to suggest that you read every single one of them before responding to a post of mine on that forum should you decide to participate over there.

Todd

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

ORIGINAL: Thresh

Well, I've been here since the beginning,before the game was even EiA, not under this screen name, but I've been here. Does that somehow mean my opinion on the subject should be considered more by the powers that be?


Todd

Absolutely not, but it does mean that if I'm going to criticize your postings that I might want to take the time to read ALL of your posts before I say something to make myself look like an A$$!!!

By no means would I judge you based on a few posts you have made. If you wish to do so then that's your problem. Either way, I'm done with all this back and forth and attempted derailing of this thread, it would be great if this thread could get back on track... back to people giving their opinion (whether you like it or not) of this game and if it is indeed "playable".

[Tarleton]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Either way, I'm done with all this back and forth and attempted derailing of this thread, it would be great if this thread could get back on track... back to people giving their opinion (whether you like it or not) of this game and if it is indeed "playable".

This thread actually has a purpose?

I find it entertaining (perhaps unintentionally so) but I wouldn't have guessed it was actually a serious, constructive attempt to improve the game.

[borner]

there was a point to this thread??? I hope not!!! [X(]

[Thresh]

Playable is subjective.

I think its playable.&nbsp; I also think it could be better, which is why I am working to help make it better when I can contribute.&nbsp;

Others don't think its playable, and seem to think that posting about how unplayable the game is consitutes effort in making it better.

I think they are wrong, but then that's a subjective point of view.

Todd

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Tarleton

I find it entertaining (perhaps unintentionally so) but I wouldn't have guessed it was actually a serious, constructive attempt to improve the game.

Absolutely not, I don't think this thread was ever intended to be that, nor is it, obviously. It was just intended to voice opinions and take a poll I believe, then again I wasn't the OP.