Patriotism and being a JFB.

[Mynok]

War is hell.

Witp isn't war.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


War is hell.

Witp isn't war.

[&o][&o][&o]

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


War is hell.

Witp isn't war.

Correctum. That's what makes the entire premise of this thread so silly. I seem to remember a similar one on the SP:WaW forum some time ago, and that was just as dumb.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Mynok


War is hell.

Witp isn't war.

Correctum. That's what makes the entire premise of this thread so silly. I seem to remember a similar one on the SP:WaW forum some time ago, and that was just as dumb.

No , this is what this thread is all about , in his own words.




I wish to ask the opinion of people here about gaming with the "bad guys"
First I want to say that I am a steadfast patriot of the United States. If I had been able to at the tender age of 18 I would have joined the US Navy. I have a deep love for the United States. I support our troops and go out of my way to thank anyone I see in uniform. I even, if I am able, will buy them a drink or a meal but most of our service people just say thanks and a thankyou is enough for them.

With that said I also since the age of 15 have been facinated with all things Japanese and to a lesser extent Germany. I love the Shogun era of Japan and have dabbled in Japanese history when I find the time. I love playing Japan in WiTP. I have also tended to go for Germany in just about any war game that has them in it unless Japan is also in it then I will always go for Japan. I even like Klingons and the Empire in the respective sci fi genres.

My mother usually got upset with me about this and always said I was killing off my ancestors. I in later years found that she was mostly joking but underneath I really believe it bothers her.

I know we have alot of active and retired service personnel that play this and other games. How do you all feel about someone playing against what you guys have sacrificed for and believe in?

Thank You all

He is not all that experinced with this forum , having only posted a few times. He probably hasn't been involved in the "sunk vs. scuttled" , "best fighter", debates. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, as you have demanded others.

Let's try real hard to dial down the nastyness people. We are adults , not children on the playground.

[Mynok]

And it was a stupid topic, for the two reasons I just specified.

How do you all feel about someone playing against what you guys have sacrificed for and believe in?

I cannot understand how a rational mind could even ask this question. It makes no sense on the face of it. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Not sure why anyone expected otherwise.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


And it was a stupid topic, for the two reasons I just specified.

How do you all feel about someone playing against what you guys have sacrificed for and believe in?

I cannot understand how a rational mind could even ask this question. It makes no sense on the face of it. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Not sure why anyone expected otherwise.

My grandmother always used to say "if you can't say something nice".....while I can never aspire to her degree of toleration, I will say ..Let it go Mynok....It just isn't worth getting all bent out of shape about.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

This thread started out talking about playing the axis in WITP. Can we return to that please? It's not to say that such discussions are not worthy, they are. But somewhere else. Not here.

Oh I thought he said "bad guys" I naturally assumed he meant the Allies.[;)]

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Mynok


And it was a stupid topic, for the two reasons I just specified.

How do you all feel about someone playing against what you guys have sacrificed for and believe in?

I cannot understand how a rational mind could even ask this question. It makes no sense on the face of it. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Not sure why anyone expected otherwise.

My grandmother always used to say "if you can't say something nice".....while I can never aspire to her degree of toleration, I will say ..Let it go Mynok....It just isn't worth getting all bent out of shape about.

Who's bent of shape? I'm certainly not. I'm not intent on controlling the dumb things people do or trying to make peace when their idiocy gets jumped on by others as it always will. It just flabbergasts me when people are surprised.

It also amazes me that you still keep trying to get Terminus to act against his nature. Speaking of needing to "let it go". [8|]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Mynok


And it was a stupid topic, for the two reasons I just specified.



I cannot understand how a rational mind could even ask this question. It makes no sense on the face of it. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Not sure why anyone expected otherwise.

My grandmother always used to say "if you can't say something nice".....while I can never aspire to her degree of toleration, I will say ..Let it go Mynok....It just isn't worth getting all bent out of shape about.

Who's bent of shape? I'm certainly not. I'm not intent on controlling the dumb things people do or trying to make peace when their idiocy gets jumped on by others as it always will. It just flabbergasts me when people are surprised.

It also amazes me that you still keep trying to get Terminus to act against his nature. Speaking of needing to "let it go". [8|]

I'm not trying to get Terminus to do anything. I can't. I can't even PM him if I'd like to talk things over and make peace. He chose to green button me again, and that takes me completely out of the equation. I wish him well, but I'm not trying to inluence him or even comunicate with him. I can't. End of story.

As far as my trying to make peace, well, I'm not sure what you'd have me do. Join you? Join in and throw crap? I don't see how that solves anything, and certainly does nothing to advance our understanding of the game. And that, bottom line , is what this forum is all about. If we ask ourselves before posting, does this add in someway to our pleasure in the game?, these spats become juvenile and pointless.

Mynok, you are a long time Threadster, one of the wise old men of the thread.We all look up to you.You have forgotton more about this game than I will ever learn. You have a great deal to teach and share. Do you really want me, or anyone to stop trying to make peace? Do you really want people to say "stop being nice to each other?". Or is that just anger and frustration that you feel, and I'm the convienant target?

A million years ago , when I was in high school , I was a debater. there was only two rules. Keep it civil , and don't get personal. Those are not bad rules for the forum. We might ad keep it relevant , but that opens things up for more argument.

So lets agree to disagree, but also agree to keep it civil, and not personal. Don't ever stop talking, and don't ever be afraid to try and make peace. [:)]

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve




My grandmother always used to say "if you can't say something nice".....while I can never aspire to her degree of toleration, I will say ..Let it go Mynok....It just isn't worth getting all bent out of shape about.

Who's bent of shape? I'm certainly not. I'm not intent on controlling the dumb things people do or trying to make peace when their idiocy gets jumped on by others as it always will. It just flabbergasts me when people are surprised.

It also amazes me that you still keep trying to get Terminus to act against his nature. Speaking of needing to "let it go". [8|]

I'm not trying to get Terminus to do anything. I can't. I can't even PM him if I'd like to talk things over and make peace. He chose to green button me again, and that takes me completely out of the equation. I wish him well, but I'm not trying to inluence him or even comunicate with him. I can't. End of story.

As far as my trying to make peace, well, I'm not sure what you'd have me do. Join you? Join in and throw crap? I don't see how that solves anything, and certainly does nothing to advance our understanding of the game. And that, bottom line , is what this forum is all about. If we ask ourselves before posting, does this add in someway to our pleasure in the game?, these spats become juvenile and pointless.

Mynok, you are a long time Threadster, one of the wise old men of the thread.We all look up to you.You have forgotton more about this game than I will ever learn. You have a great deal to teach and share. Do you really want me, or anyone to stop trying to make peace? Do you really want people to say "stop being nice to each other?". Or is that just anger and frustration that you feel, and I'm the convienant target?

A million years ago , when I was in high school , I was a debater. there was only two rules. Keep it civil , and don't get personal. Those are not bad rules for the forum. We might ad keep it relevant , but that opens things up for more argument.

So lets agree to disagree, but also agree to keep it civil, and not personal. Don't ever stop talking, and don't ever be afraid to try and make peace. [:)]

Dont worry, i'm not here for months, and when i return i still can see that terminus is still garbage gay guy. Even mods do nothing about that. He still can offend people using unapropriate words.

Oh, back to sleep now, again[:)]

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Do you really want me, or anyone to stop trying to make peace? Do you really want people to say "stop being nice to each other?". Or is that just anger and frustration that you feel, and I'm the convienant target?

Target? I'm advising you, man. There are some things not worth wasting your peacemaking efforts on. That's the short version of what I'm trying to get across to you.

So lets agree to disagree, but also agree to keep it civil, and not personal. Don't ever stop talking, and don't ever be afraid to try and make peace. [:)]

We don't disagree. We just act differently and with differing motivations. Although...it not always a bad thing to just shut up and listen. [:D]

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: pauk

Dont worry, i'm not here for months, and when i return i still can see that terminus is still garbage gay guy. Even mods do nothing about that. He still can offend people using unapropriate words.

Oh, back to sleep now, again[:)]

T's actually been much better behaved recently. Most likely due to a lack of stupid topics like this one blowing about to get his ire up.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Do you really want me, or anyone to stop trying to make peace? Do you really want people to say "stop being nice to each other?". Or is that just anger and frustration that you feel, and I'm the convienant target?

Target? I'm advising you, man. There are some things not worth wasting your peacemaking efforts on. That's the short version of what I'm trying to get across to you.

So lets agree to disagree, but also agree to keep it civil, and not personal. Don't ever stop talking, and don't ever be afraid to try and make peace. [:)]

We don't disagree. We just act differently and with differing motivations. Although...it not always a bad thing to just shut up and listen. [:D]

Maybe your right, but I always feel that trying to reach out and come to agreement is worth the bruises. It is never a bad thing to shut up and listen. But the time is mine to waste. I perfer to call it investing. I appreciate your advice and motivation.
And perhaps target is the wrong word. I apologize. How but , I'm the one that you are most currently frustrated with? [:)]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: pauk

Dont worry, i'm not here for months, and when i return i still can see that terminus is still garbage gay guy. Even mods do nothing about that. He still can offend people using unapropriate words.

Oh, back to sleep now, again[:)]

T's actually been much better behaved recently. Most likely due to a lack of stupid topics like this one blowing about to get his ire up.

I'm sorry Mynok, that's one of the things we definately will have to agree to disagree on. I have found him more difficult than ever. While he may only be hostile to "stupid topics", lately nearly everything has been stupid to him. And everyone he disagrees with is a moron, idiot or worse. Everyone is entitled to their own opions, and to disagree, but this name calling is definately getting worse, and has to stop. And that includes your choices Pauk. Did you really have to call him that?

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

Ok, as a german I think I have to jump in here.

1)
The Nazi Regime was EVIL, no discussion about that point necessary!!!
I am extremely thankfull for the allies to sweep those assheads into the gutter of history!

2)
GeStaPo, SS and parts of the Wehrmacht commited atrocities beyond imagination!
Again, no need to discuss this. I know it, you know it.

3)
Not all germans, not even all german soldiers, were like that, however. There were some (many?) with a backbone (is this a phrase in english too?)

Example: General Hoepner, who, in 1942, ordered his troops (4th Panzer Group) to retreat from the russian counterattack at Moskau aginst the direct order of Hitler, with the remark, that his duty to care for his troops outweight that to obey. Of course, he was promptely dismissed from the wehrmacht, striped of all decorations and his pension rights and after July 20, 1944 senteced to death and hanged on August 8th.
There are examples of extremely ruthless commaders too, of course

4)
There were incidents on the allies side as well, but in no way, form or shape up to the extend as there were in the axis
(leaving the soviets aside for the moment, which I personally would put into the "not noticably different in terms of evil than the nazis" pot).
That being said, the allies were no saints either, and I don´t think anyone with a braincell left could argue so.

Still, if there is a "good side" in WW2, and I belive there is, it has to be the (western) allies.
As the saying goes: War is hell, and things happen in war, that NEVER would happen under normal circumstances (except they did happen in Germany and Russia without a war being fought!).

As allways, I believe, the majority of people choose the way of the least resistance.
As someone once said: For evil to win, it is only necessary for good to do nothing.

If you ask me what I would have done in that kind of situation (I do have the benefit of the "late birth", i.e. after WW2)
I can only answer: I hope I would act decent, but I honestly can´t say without being in the actual situation.




Hm, does this count as a political discussion? If yes, I will delete the post.




Ralph Hoenig, Germany

Well said, I agree, and I still like playing the Germans and Japanese at times. I think I can honor bravery , ingenuity etc. of a foe, no matter how evil certain leaders and followers were.

[mdiehl]

It is never a bad thing to shut up and listen.

Interestingly, the people most given to telling others that they ought to shut up and listen never do either.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

It is never a bad thing to shut up and listen.

Interestingly, the people most given to telling others that they ought to shut up and listen never do either.

mdiehl, could you please be a little clearer for me? As you are quoting me, am I right in assuming that your saying I should shut up and listen? [&:]

[USSAmerica]

Man, I just KNEW this thread would degenerate after that first post by Japan.  I was looking for the lock as soon as I read it, and I'm sorry to see my friends getting sucked into the nonsense. 

[wwengr]

Sometimes you just should not hit send![:D]

[wwengr]

Wrong way to approach this discussion.