Yammy vs Treespider AAR - no peekie Forest

[Yamato hugger]

Historical first turn.

Pearl Harbor raid was a disappointment. Only 1 CL and 3 DDs reported sunk. Results were effective on the airfield as intell puts a mere 14 fighters and 1 bomber left there although the airfield is reportedly still operational (48%). The damage reported to US BBs was extensive:

BB California, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 17, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

But no sinkings. The KB will have to remain for a 2nd strike. Since the US carriers are between them and Wake, the Wake landings will be canceled until the carriers move west to cover it. No mini-subs penetrated the harbor but on the plus side, 2 returned to their mother ships. Some small patrol craft were hit by Jap search aircraft in the PH area. 2 DDs bombarded Midway.

Raids on force Z were a huge disappointment as only 1 torpedo hit was reported (on Repulse). Nells raided Singapore unescorted and lost 13 of their own. 14 Buffs intercepted and all 14 were sent home damaged. Only 19 planes reported destroyed on the ground. Attacks elsewhere in Malaya met moderate successes but nothing to jump up and down about. Reprisal strikes were launched against Kongo and company for no effect.

Raids on the PI were equally disappointing. 10 total P-40s (5 Bs and 5 Es) mostly on the ground. Only 2 B-17s were reported destroyed.

The 1st Saesbo SNLF along with the 24th JAAF Bn landed at and secured Batan island.

Elements of the 56th regiment of the 18th division along with 12th engineer regiment of the 18th division began landings at Kota Bharu. The 8th Indian bde was reported to take severe damage from the shore bombardment and is likely disrupted.

I have never really played the Japs before so figuring out what I have where and where to send stuff will take a bit of time.

[Japan]

Ah interesting   [:)]

[tanksone]

Hi, I look forward to watching how you impelment your Packer sweep in AE...

[bradfordkay]

It looks to me like five of those BBs are going to go under in the next couple of days, whether or not you attack again - at least if the number of bomb and torpedo hits is reported accurately. 

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

It looks to me like five of those BBs are going to go under in the next couple of days, whether or not you attack again - at least if the number of bomb and torpedo hits is reported accurately. 

Ive never seen a ship in AE sink in port from prior damage except from fire damage and that was changed long ago. I will attack again.

[Yamato hugger]

The first step in my planning process is to determine exactly what forces I have at my disposal. Fleet units are roughly the same as WitP although some classes have changed slightly. Production is totally different. Air is roughly the same initially. Ground units are scattered hither and yon. So I will start here.

First I select the list all ground units from the icons on the top of the screen (the UI is the same as WitP) and then sort these by HQ. I will set my initial focus on units assigned to non-restricted commands.

Most of the units in southern fleet are static CD units, but there are several mobile base forces. These arent the 120 AV support units of WitP fame but rather mostly nav support (120) with only 24 av support. They also dont have the huge numbers of CD guns in them having rather meager AA guns instead. In WitP I put these units at the points of attack that I expect the allies to come because of the large numbers of 5.5" and 4.7", but clearly in AE these are meant to be near the front emergency repair forces. This is how they will be used. I will bundle 1 or 2 of these with a naval HQ and try to keep them at level 3 ports near the areas I will be attacking.

Southern army has a large number of engineers on ship headed for the Malaya / Thailand boarder areas in several different TFs. In AE you can see ground units that are on a ship in the "list all ground units" display in addition to units on land (huge improvement over WitP). I have scattered air base units (company and battalion strength) all over Indo-China with a handful of "air sector" base forces at the bigger fields. Several HQ units are also assigned to southern army, but they arent going to be looked at for now.

I find elements of the 2nd division at sea off Tokyo (1 and 2nd Bn of the 4th reg, the 2nd recon reg, and the 2nd eng reg) heading to Kuching. The remainder of the 2nd division (16th reg, 24th reg, and 2nd FA) is in Japan in the Sendai area and most of the unit is prepped 100% for Singapore (except the 4th regiment which is set for Miri). My first instinct was to reroute the 2nd to Rabul but as they are already prepped for Singapore, thats where I will send them. The bulk of the 2nd div is 16th army (only the 4th inf reg is southern army) and these units cant be combined unless the 4th inf reg is changed to 16th army.

The 1st raiding regiment (paratroops) is in Japan (Kagoshima). These will be moved to Bangkok for use in Burma as needed.

The 124th reg is in Vietnam (1 and 3 Bn in Cam Rahn Bay and the 2nd Bn in Hanoi). The 4th mxd reg and the 21st mxd bde are also in Indo-China.

The 21st division is in Shanghai and will need to remain there until other garrison forces are moved in to replace it, but is is available for deployment elsewhere. This will be a tactical reserve unit for now, probably to the Rabul / Morseby area.

4th division is in Osaka and also going to be a reserve, probably going south as well to perhaps Darwin.

Southeast fleet has 3 of the same type base forces as above and a rather large nav gd unit (the 66th) which has 6 Bns and a SNLF. These forces are mostly in the Truk area with 3 of the nav gd bns at Babeldaob (1 hex NE of Peleliu). These guys are only fit for grabbing the lightly defended areas of the Solomon Sea.

Combined fleet has a mixed array of engineers, air support, SNLF, and nav gd units all over the map. These will be on an "as needed" basis.

5th fleet is an unrestricted command, but only has 2 non-static units in it - the HQ and 1 air base (24 av).

4th fleet is in the Kwajalein area and is mostly nav gd units and vairous naval and air support units. It also contains the 144th reg of the 55th division (in order for the 55th division to be combined, this unit will have to change its HQ to 15 army all sub-units have to be assigned to the same HQ before they can be combined). The 144th will be my spearhead against Wake and probably Midway as well.

25th army has the 5th division mostly unloading at Signora (11th inf reg, 5th recce reg, 5th FA, and 5th eng reg) with the 42nd inf reg unloading at nearby Patani (1 hex SE of Signora). The 21st inf reg is headed for Kota Bharu and is still off the Cam Rahn Bay coast.

The bulk of the 56th div is aboard ship off the east coast of Kyushu in Japan less the 146th inf reg which is at Babeldoab and assigned to 16th army. The 146th will have to be changed to 25th in order to re-combine the 56th div. Since all the sub-units of the 56th div have assigned targets that have already been taken or will be before the unit arrives and also since it is already all in 1 TF I will elect to use this unit as my main Rabul strike force.

The 18th division is earmarked for northern Malaya. The 56th inf and 12th eng regs are already on the ground at Kota Bharu. The 55th and 114th inf regs are at sea near Cam Rahn Bay and could be landed further south on the Malay peninsula. The 22nd recce and 18th mtn gun units are still in Samah.

Imp Gd div is at Battembang in Cambodia along with the bulk of the 55th div of the 15th army. This gives me 5 divisions for the Malay attack which I feel is enough (2nd, 5th, 18th, 55th, and Imp Gd) with the 4th and 21st divs as reserves if needed.

16th army has the 2nd div (already mentioned) and also the 38th div headed to Hong Kong. After HK is secure the 38th will be a reserve unit going where its needed, probably Java.

15th army has the 55th div mostly at Battembang less the 144th inf reg (which is off Iwo Jima in 4th fleet) and the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd bn of the 143rd inf reg which are landing at various ports along the Thai peninsula. As already mentioned the 55th is headed for Malaya.

33rd div is in Nagasaki 100% prepped for Rahaeng. Walking into Burma isnt my idea of fun, so I look for possible alternatives. The 33rd will be going to Burma, but how and where. Looking at the map we find 3 possible landing sites:
1) Rangoon. But in AE Rangoon is a river port 1 full hex up the Irrawaddy and I would consider an invasion of a river port to be a gamey move, so I wont land there.
2) Moulmein. Level 4 airfield make this a tempting target. However, will have to cross 2 rivers before battling to Rangoon.
3) Pegu. Just inside the last river line before Rangoon (1 hex east of the city) this is likely to be heavily defended.
The 33rd will prep for Moulmein and will be a Malaya reserve until Singapore falls (also considered gamey to move west of Singapore while British controlled). Until then it will be used on Davao.

14th army has the bulk of the 16th div headed to southern Luzon. Most of the division (less the 33rd inf reg) is near Okinawa. The 33rd is broken down into 2 detachments, the Miura (at battembang) and the Kimura (on ship near Battembang). The 16th will prep for Manila and will drive in from the south.

The bulk of the 48th div is in Pescadores prepped for Lingayan except the Kanno and Tanaka detachments of the 2nd Formosa inf reg which are at sea headed for Aparri and Vigan.

The 65th bde is at Takao. This unit will head to Davao. This is the limit to the "mobile" forces. So to summerize the Jap OOB:

2nd div - Malaya
4th div - Reserve (Java/Darwin)
5th div - Malaya
16th div - Luzon
18th div - Malaya
21st div - Reserve (Rabul)
33rd div - Reserve (Malaya)
38th div - Hong Kong (reserve)
48th div - Luzon
55th div - Malaya
56th div - Rabul
Imp Gd div - Malaya

65th bde - Davao
21st mxd bde - Reserve (Davao)

So phase I of the plan will be to secure Malaya, Davao, and Rabul. SNLFs will secure smaller areas. 2 inf regs with SNLF and nav gd support will head for Ambon from Ballembang. Naval and air support for most of these operations will come from ad hoc forces until I reorganize the fleet. The Ambon and Rabul forces will have CV support. Wake will be delayed until the KB moves west.

[Andy Mac]

There are 4 Naval Garison Units broken down to Company sized units this was a decision caused by the sheer number of bases in AE - the Japanese need these 16 smaller forces to run round taking small bases.
 
They can be recomb ined to a full Naval Garrison if all in same place

[helldiver]

Yamato hugger.

Great stuff! Are you willing to expand your explanation a bit? Do I understand that the "air sector" base forces are analogous to the larger, old BFs and SBFs? The Co- and Bn- sized air base units are more similar to the old IJA/IJN Base Forces? Are the capabilities different? I mean, are the smaller (Co/Bn)units intended to rough out a new AF to provide air cover or to tidy up a captured AF?

Regards,
Helldiver

[Yamato hugger]

A sector base force appears to have a standard TO&E of 48 AV support. A airfield company has 8 with 4 engineers. A Bn is basically 3 companies (24 av) with some attached AA. That is it really for Jap airbase units. There are a LOT of company size units. They cant be combined to form bns (which I find annoying) and bns cant be broken down. There are about 3 dozen static base forces with differing numbers of avs in them.

Air HQs have av support in them with 120 seemingly being the norm for air flot and air div HQs and 180 for air fleet HQs. Surprisingly air division HQs have torp loads also even though the Jap army didnt operate torpedo bombers (that Im aware of).

There are only 4 "mobile" CD units, 3 of them being reinforcements and 2 of THEM not until 43 and only packing 4 200mm guns 16 120mm 8 100mm and 4 80mm. The 1 that is on map only has 8 155mm, 3 140mm, and 4 120mm guns. This combined with atoll stacking limits is going to make it very difficult to make "hard points" to hold off the allies. The Marshalls and Solomons can be built up with enough over-lapping airfields to make it defendable but the Gilberts is going to be hard pressed. In order to hold an outlaying post like Midway / Johnston / Canton or similar you are almost going to have to dedicate a CV group to it. I cant see them surviving otherwise.

[helldiver]

Y.h.

Thanks for taking the time to explain... I have a much better handle on it now... I almost always play the Japanese side and find your explanantion enlightening... the restrictions you mention sound like they have the effect of hamstringing the Japanese side appropriately (historically), while still allowing some fun flexibility... this combined with the promise of a brighter AI... well, the hard part is the waiting.

Regards,
Helldiver

[Andy Mac]

The IJN Base forces of which there are about 12 (as opposed to Special Base Forces) gets a hefty DP Gun upgrade in 2/43
 
The IJN Special Base Forces (of which there are about 14 as well) get a battery of 8cm DP guns attached
 
So these units have some CD capability
 
Tarawa is the key to the Gilberts as in game its stacking capacity is reasonable because it covers all the atolls.
 
The reason for the COmpanies is to provide flexibility around garrison sizes on Atolls and to allow players to mix and match how they want to defend some of the fleaspecs
 
Andy

[Yamato hugger]

My first turn nears its end! (finally after 10 hours of on and off work). I just looked at the results from the first turn strikes. I dont know how accurate the kills are as it shows no allied ships sunk and 3 Jap ships sunk. I did lose 3 ships - the 3 mini-subs at Pearl. But the allies lost (according to the sunk ships display) the RNZN CL Achilles and 3 DDs at Pearl.

It shows I scored 327 allied aircraft destroyed 108 of these being P-40Bs (107 of those on the ground) and 62 PBY-5s. Sounds very optimistic to me. The aircraft losses for the day shows 432 total planes destroyed but on the points summery it has 327 allied and 28 Japanese. Nice kill ratio! I only lost 7 at Pearl (5 Vals and 2 Kates).

I have given orders to all ground units. Moved some air units and changed missions. Embarked units on transports and amphibs and moved a few rear area naval units (including my BBs). I havent even looked at production (we are playing with PDUs off, so frankly Im not planning on changing much if anything). So off it goes to the allied player for round 2.

[madflava13]

YH - Thanks for the AAR... I'd love to hear a little bit more about how midget subs work - how many you get, how you deploy them, your plans for them, etc...
 

[Yamato hugger]

double post

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: madflava13

YH - Thanks for the AAR... I'd love to hear a little bit more about how midget subs work - how many you get, how you deploy them, your plans for them, etc...

They are created same as barges and PT boats. And no, I dont know how many you get over a given period of time. I have 19 in the pool right now (Dec 8) with 2 currently attached to type C-1 submarines off Pearl and 1 in the harbor at Kobe in Japan for a total of 22. I have the option of putting the one in Kobe back in the pool if I want. The subs have a mission called "midget sub" and if I change the subs with the midgets attached to sub patrol for example the minis are immediately launched.



Edit: You give the allies 3 points for each one you lose, so in my opinion they arent cost effective. If I track a damaged carrier to a smaller port (like Noumea for example) I might send them in to try to finish him off but I cant really see using them just to use them.

Edit 2: I do plan to leave a few in a port the allies are trying to take just to see what happens.

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 8th.

Morning raids on Pearl were scattered and mostly unescorted. Some hits were scored. Afternoon strikes were mostly coordinated and hit hard. BB Colorado reported sunk along with 2 additional DDs. 50 Kates lost according to the losses sheet, but not near that many actually missing from the carriers however. Kagas Kates were hit hard (lost 19) but the rest are in good shape. 3 of the carriers are at full strength.

(Edit: I assume the "Colorado" is West Virginia. I hit her several more times during the day.)

Force Z continued north and is 120 miles away from Kota Bharu (which fell to the 56th inf reg). 75 Nells and 27 Bettys were standing by on naval attack at Saigon. 9 Nells attacked in the morning and none in the afternoon. No hits. Yet the Repulse shows up on sunk ships report.

The 3 Brit DDs that start at Hong Kong did a sweep of Pescadores and sank 2 AKs that happened to have the 48th divisions engineers aboard. 2 of the DDs hit mines. 2 of the 3 were later sunk by air attack and a cruiser force east of Formosa. The last one is heavily damaged.

An enemy minesweeper hit a sub launched mine at Bataan. Not much action over the PI and Malaya today because of weather. Enemy withdrew his air from Clark and Manila.

51st naval guard landed at and secured Tarawa. Troop max on Tarawa has been raised since the last time I played to 30,000. I will have to muster some forces to hold it. At 6,000 I always considered it undefendable.

Allied subs reported in Kota Bharu (sub was attacked by ASW forces and damaged) and off Saigon.

Intell at Pearl shows the airfield closed at 58%. Light damage to the port and repair facilities. Several enemy subs heading west south west of Pearl.

Air recon shows a squadron of enemy bombers based at Kuantan. The troops there are heading out of the base to the west and south west. Enemy troops in Alor Star marching south east. Enemy troops at Mersing heading west and southwest as well. Air recon shows enemy ground units in Tavoy and Moulmein heading north east. Looks like a Sir Robin in Malaya.

[jrcar]

Don't rush at Tarawa, if the Allies do come early let them, then crush them

You get a lot of Naval guard, but few BF or aviation elements for the CentPac area at the start, you may have to "borrow" some from Southern Army.

In my opinion the Centpac is a waste to focus on as the Japanese, unless you really comit to go deep, like Fiji or some of the other bigger islands.

There aren't resources or oil, and you have enough strategic depth here to keep the Allies at bay without over extending.

I often take Midway, although as it is 6000 troops you can't really defend it.

Cheers

Rob

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

It shows I scored 327 allied aircraft destroyed 108 of these being P-40Bs (107 of those on the ground) and 62 PBY-5s. Sounds very optimistic to me. The aircraft losses for the day shows 432 total planes destroyed but on the points summery it has 327 allied and 28 Japanese. Nice kill ratio! I only lost 7 at Pearl (5 Vals and 2 Kates).

Where did you get 432? I count 327 Allied and 28 Japanese, and points at 350 and 28. Are all aircraft worth the same points, or do you get more for 4E? (that might account for the discrepancy on the Allied side.) Presumably these numbers are also FOW-impacted? Assuming these are foggy numbers, is that true for both sides, or (in this case) is the Japanese number accurate (since you could be expected to know the truth about your own losses) while the Allied is fogged?

Edit: Kind of humorous that by end-of-day on 12/8/41, with two days of Pearl Harbor raids under their belts, the Japanese points for "Sunk Allied Ships" is zero! Are you using late '44 experience level pilots? [;)]

[jrcar]

FOW applies to the other side, truth to you.

FOW can be extreme at times! It will report ships that were heavily damaged as sunk, when they are ok, they will give a name to a ship that is representive of the class (ie CA's) but may not be correct to what was actually lost.

Damaged ships will sink at sea, but are much less likely to sink when in port in AE than in stock.

Damage is in two types (minor and major), and major damage can ONLY be fixed at repair yards... damaged ships can be out for a long time!

Cheers

Rob

[Iridium]

ORIGINAL: jrcar

Damaged ships will sink at sea, but are much less likely to sink when in port in AE than in stock.

Good, I never did like the image of Kaga (despite bad damage control) sitting in a level 8 harbor with 60% flooding sinking with everyone just watching...