Armor Values + Symbols

[Mraah]

Use this thread to discuss the armor values and symbol data.
This maybe helpful if anyone creates new data for vehicles.

For reference, I've attached a screen shot of the top half of p.31 from the PcK manual.

[Mraah]

Now, to start of a disscussion ... from another thread.

ORIGINAL: Mobius
You might want to let the front hull location 2 on the StuG be 6+2 as it has some applique armor from the tracks.

Mobius,

Ok ... I can see how the 6+2 reflects the tracks being bolted on the front lower hull. I'll make this change to my Wittman's StuggIIIA xml I'm using for my Bussard campaign.

However, I'm a little concerned about how the game represents "bolted" armor. From my first post, looking at the reference photo from the manual, you can see that bolted armor mentions "it can be more vulnerable to certain critical hits".

So, to keep the critical hit chance at a minimum ... Perhaps a value of ... 6/6+2 ?

Even better, but I don't know if this will be proper ... 6^2 ?
I know the symbol ^ is used for the side hits ... but ...

Anyway, I'm not a metalurgist (forgive the spelling), so I'll assume that drilling holes in armor and bolting something reduces the overall strength charateristics of the underlying armor? Perhaps, even bolting a rack onto the front of the hull to support extra tracks may be enough to justify a 6+2.

Did I answer my own question? [:D]

Rob

[Lieste]

From the Panzer-War paper rules, the bolted armour is counted as either the base armour, or the sum of base and applique.

I would assume that this would be related to the note above.
The armour is heavier, but doesn't always offer additional protection commensurate with the added mass.

Looking at the armour on the Panzer-War Elephant for example, the basic 100mm is augmented by 100mm of applique armour, so normally a 200mm penetration would be required to defeat the front hull. With a lucky hit though the armour is only the base 100mm, and the tank is more vulnerable than if it were 200mm of regular armour - it isn't more vulnerable than the base vehicle to a successful penetration however.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Lieste
From the Panzer-War paper rules, the bolted armour is counted as either the base armour, or the sum of base and applique.
I would assume that this would be related to the note above.
The armour is heavier, but doesn't always offer additional protection commensurate with the added mass.

Looking at the armour on the Panzer-War Elephant for example, the basic 100mm is augmented by 100mm of applique armour, so normally a 200mm penetration would be required to defeat the front hull. With a lucky hit though the armour is only the base 100mm, and the tank is more vulnerable than if it were 200mm of regular armour - it isn't more vulnerable than the base vehicle to a successful penetration however.

True, if Koios did the code right one chance in six would be against the base value. All other hits would be against the sum of both values.

I use the bolted for bolted, riveted, spot welded and some applique armor like added tracks. The reasoning being for not always being the sum of both is that this armor is unreliable in that it could fall off after being hit or rivet and bolt heads could be driven into the vehicle and be just as deadly as if the armor has been penetrated.

The difference between 6/8 and 6+2 would be 50/50 and 83.3/16.66.
The ^ also is additive but if the base value is penetrated the track is damaged. If both values are penetrated the hull is penetrated. I don't know what this would do if it was on a non-track location.

[Mraah]

Lieste and Mobius,

Ok ... understood.

I downloaded the Wittmann's StugB and saw it has the bolted front location #2. I'll give it a go.

Now ... some more question(s) ... I hate to use the CCBB data for reference but I'll say again, it's quite a detailed database and it's the only quick reference I have so bare with me ...

Sloped Armor ... symbol "u" .

What's the angle requirement this value represents? I'll assume it means an angle ~ 45-60 degrees from vertical ?

The reason why I'm asking (wondering) is that the StugB has rear hull armor that's sloped at 30 degrees from vertical. I suppose this really isn't enough to help or even model.

Also, in the future, I wish they had two more variants of the sloped symbol. An example :

"a" = sloped armor from 10-30 degrees from vertical ... "a" meaning acute angle.
"o" = sloped armor from 60-80 degrees from vertical ... "o" meaning obtuse angle.

Thanks for your comments,

Rob

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Mraah

Sloped Armor ... symbol "u" .

What's the angle requirement this value represents? I'll assume it means an angle ~ 45-60 degrees from vertical ?

Yes, 45° or more is 'u' armor.
I was hoping to use 'a' for another type armor. Anti-deflection. Trying to figure out how to handle armor like that on the front hull of a JSIII. Sloped when it is facing front but normal when off to the side.