AE Productions?

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: fremen

Wait! Wait! I was confused here.....
The all aircraft production capacity in Tokyo at start is 30 Sonias????????????????????
OMG!!! This is the grave to japanese fanboys...

Heh. Here is the current Jap aircraft pools sorted by plane production: Is it any wonder why you dont have to worry about "Uber CAP" anymore? [;)]

[Caesaren]

 

Hmm,
one answer = many new questions
 
The name of the upgrade for the A6M2 Zero is white, but of the Nate it is grey.
1. What means this? (I will not hope that the Nate have no upgrade)
2. Is this shown upgrade only an info or is it a menu?
 

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ok, here are the basics of the new production system. I am still learning this myself, so if I make a mistake, I apologize in advance.

Manpower doesnt require resources anymore. You got em, you get em.

Resource centers create 20 resource points a day.
Oil centers produce 10 oil points per day.
(Neither produces supply)

Light industry uses 20 resource points per day and makes 2 supply out of it.
Heavy industry uses 15 resources and 2 fuel per day and makes 1 supply and 2 HI.
Refineries use 10 oil points per day and produce 9 fuel and 1 supply.

Ok - I had to read the manual on that and it made my eyes hurt. So after a breather we look at the Jap situation at start. I break the Jap production into distinct areas, these are:

Kyushu, Shikoku, Honshu, and Hokkaido - collectively Home Islands. I do it this way because Ominato is a level 5 port (between Honshu and Hokkaido) and Shikoku only has a level 4 port and frankly I am not sure resources will flow over these areas. I think it had to be a level 6 in WitP to flow, so better safe than sorry. (There is a level 3 port at Tsushima connecting Korea with Kyushu but again, I dont think this is big enough to allow the movement.) Home islands are area 1

Korea, Manchuria, and northern China is area 2
At start there is a small pocket at Hankow that isnt connected by rail to the rest of northern China, but is connected by road. I call this 2a as again, not sure if stuff will flow.

Formosa is area 3

Vietnam is area 4

Thailand is area 5

Canton is area 6. Hong Kong will NOT be included in this display for area 6. I found a possible bug in the factory capture routine and I am waiting on confirmation of if its WAD or not.

Area 1 produces an excess of resource points in all areas except Honshu. Honshu is down about 112k a day resources (thus the reason the port size on those 2 choke points is important).

Area - res pts - - oil pts - fuel - - Produces:
-1-- - <52,500> -- <7820> -- <2545> - 18,035 supply + 9000 HI/day
-2-- - + 26,900 -- <600> --- <720> -- 4080 supply + 1800 HI/day
-2a- - <1400> ---- none ---- <80> --- 200 supply + 80 HI/day
-3-- - + 3200 ---- + 80 ---- none --- 160 supply/day
-4-- - + 4500 ---- none ---- <40> --- 100 supply + 40 HI/day
-5-- - <600> ----- <200> --- + 140 -- 220 supply + 80 HI/day
-6-- - <900> ----- none ---- <120> -- 260 supply + 120 HI/day

So over all the Japs are down 20,800 resource points per day (1040 resource centers). 854 oil centers (8540 points), and in addition to the oil they are short 3365 fuel a day.

This isnt really all that bad as far as oil/fuel. Palembang alone has 900 oil and over 1000 refineries. But there are only around 1400 resource centers in the "historical" area the Japanese captured meaning the Japs have to go out of their way to try to take them intact. Areas in Oz and/or India or a push deeper into China may be warranted.

Japs start with 6.8 million resources and 3.2 million oil, so they really arent in that bad of shape.

Edit: Oops, missed the island of Sakhalin (north of the home islands), There is around 500 more resources (10,000 points) and 30 oil centers there also.

Ok YH, I'm starting my first production spreadsheet for AE. [:D] A couple of comments and questions.

According to my calculations, there's enough oil for 12.9 months of refining. Now, oil's only purpose is to produce fuel (and a bit of supply as a byproduct). With Palembang's 900 oil and 1000 refineries, assuming no damage to either, no more shipping out of oil. Now we have to ship in 1000 oil per day and ship out 9k fuel per day. Pretty interesting.

Now, looking at resources. Resources are used only for heavy and light industry. They both produce varying amounts of supply and heavy industry produces HI. Based on the costs (in resources) and and production at currently owned resource centers, there are enough resources on hand (6.8 million) to last 78 months! To me that seems a bit excessive. Is there another use for resources that you haven't mentioned?

[pad152]

Ok I'll ask again, How do you find a factory that's been turned off in AE?

[kokubokan25]

Heh. Here is the current Jap aircraft pools sorted by plane production: Is it any wonder why you dont have to worry about "Uber CAP" anymore? [;)]

Oh...great, great...i dont have to worry about JAPANESE Uber CAP anymore. But, what about the HELLCATS Uber CAP???

Thanks! Thanks to the AE Team to include the Editor, much work to do before any game starts..[:D]

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: fremen

Heh. Here is the current Jap aircraft pools sorted by plane production: Is it any wonder why you dont have to worry about "Uber CAP" anymore? [;)]

Oh...great, great...i dont have to worry about JAPANESE Uber CAP anymore. But, what about the HELLCATS Uber CAP???

Thanks! Thanks to the AE Team to include the Editor, much work to do before any game starts..[:D]

By that point though, Im sure the Japanease will have a much, much higher production - as they did historically.

Speaking of which, we have yet to see any Allied production numbers.

Yammy, any Allied F/FB production number for the AFB's? [:D]

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: Long Lance

Fine! I always wondered why it is not there in WitP!

And the 'back'-Button in Squadron menu now does always work?
In Witp, it does not work if you open the Airfield-screen by clicking on the AF-symbol, only when clicking the base and then selecting AF in the base menu.

(and in the background a large chrous is singing) HALLELUJAH

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ok YH, I'm starting my first production spreadsheet for AE. [:D] A couple of comments and questions.

According to my calculations, there's enough oil for 12.9 months of refining. Now, oil's only purpose is to produce fuel (and a bit of supply as a byproduct). With Palembang's 900 oil and 1000 refineries, assuming no damage to either, no more shipping out of oil. Now we have to ship in 1000 oil per day and ship out 9k fuel per day. Pretty interesting.

Now, looking at resources. Resources are used only for heavy and light industry. They both produce varying amounts of supply and heavy industry produces HI. Based on the costs (in resources) and and production at currently owned resource centers, there are enough resources on hand (6.8 million) to last 78 months! To me that seems a bit excessive. Is there another use for resources that you haven't mentioned?

Well dont load the ships headed to Palembang with oil just yet. There are other inland bases that have oil. The total production for southern Sumatra is 20 resource, 1150 oil, and 1020 refinery. No Heavy or Light industry. So assuming no damage to anything, you are shipping out over 9k fuel in addition to 1300 oil per day.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Ok I'll ask again, How do you find a factory that's been turned off in AE?

Same old way. Only so much can be changed in a given time frame.

[Mike Solli]

Thanks YH.&nbsp; Are there any lt or hvy industry in the SRA?

[Dili]

Resource centers create 20 resource points a day.
Oil centers produce 10 oil points per day.

I suppose that varies by resource/oil center size isn't it?

So assuming no damage to anything, you are shipping out over 9k fuel in addition to 1300 oil per day.

The fuel could be to resupply the Task force.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Caesaren

Hmm,
one answer = many new questions

The name of the upgrade for the A6M2 Zero is white, but of the Nate it is grey.
1. What means this? (I will not hope that the Nate have no upgrade)
2. Is this shown upgrade only an info or is it a menu?

Grey is "end of the line" production. The factory has no upgrade and would need to be manually upgraded if you want it to be changed. The shown upgrade is what it upgrades to. After it has upgraded, the next upgrade will be shown. No factories can upgrade prior to Jan 42.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Resource centers create 20 resource points a day.
Oil centers produce 10 oil points per day.

I suppose that varies by resource/oil center size isn't it?

So assuming no damage to anything, you are shipping out over 9k fuel in addition to 1300 oil per day.

The fuel could be to resupply the Task force.

A size 20 resource center produces 400 resource points per day. A size 40 will produce 800 a day, ect.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

By that point though, Im sure the Japanease will have a much, much higher production - as they did historically.

Speaking of which, we have yet to see any Allied production numbers.

Yammy, any Allied F/FB production number for the AFB's? [:D]

Dont need no stinkin AFBs [:'(]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I will say the "rate" of the F4U is 40 a month replacement rate that is. Maybe a factory that upgrades to it, I didnt research that part yet. I'd like to get out of 1941 first [:D]

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Dont need no stinkin AFBs [:'(]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I will say the "rate" of the F4U is 40 a month replacement rate that is. Maybe a factory that upgrades to it, I didnt research that part yet. I'd like to get out of 1941 first [:D]

Hey, be nice to us AFB's! We seem to be in the minority here! [:D]

Thanks for posting that though, for the two AFB's on this forum [:)]

[Yamato hugger]

P-40E is on the list 3 times. There are other examples. So this means you have 1 rate for a while, then some more added to it, then later some more, ect.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks YH.  Are there any lt or hvy industry in the SRA?

Theres light industry all over the map. Even on some remote little islands. Heavy industry is kind of scarce. 80 total in Malaya (that will be halved when you capture it) and 60 on Java (again that will be halved).

Edit: Theres more in Hong Kong (160) than the rest of the area the Japanese historically took combined.

[Dili]

A size 20 resource center produces 400 resource points per day. A size 40 will produce 800 a day, ect.

Thanks

P-40E is on the list 3 times. There are other examples. So this means you have 1 rate for a while, then some more added to it, then later some more, ect.

Oh nice. It is one of problems that production goes up from the start so that is fixed. Another is that production is usually shorter and consequently at faster rate then the factory start changing tooling etc for new versions or new planes. Btw besides having a start day production it can have a stop day even if that plane doesn't upgrade?

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

[/quote]

I see we still have the same problem as before with replacement levels too low to deal with the games losses mechanics. If I recall, there are something like 70 or so allied squadrons that use or upgrade to the P-40E.

Now assuming they all lose just 1 airframe a month to routine op losses (they usually lose far more than that), you can see we still have far too few airframes to build up a decent pool in time to upgrade all those older obsolete air squadrons along historical timelines. Heck once you get about half upgraded, your pools will shrink from op losses even if there are no combats fought.

I know the goal is to try and keep the number of airframes on the map low, but you need to look at the pure math behind the games mechanics. You have to have higher replacement rates than just 1 or less per the number of squadrons that use a given plane type or things will simply bottleneck and break down.

Air squadrons can’t upgrade if there aren’t enough airframes to go around. And older obsolete airframes disappear quickly, so eventually the allies are stuck with dozens of squadrons sitting around waiting on the airframe pools to build to a level they can’t ever truly reach.

So they’re effectively one shot tools. Once they get used and run low on airframes they’re useless for the next several years while the wait for third and fourth generation airframes to enter the pools and allow some airframes to get dumped back into the pool.

In my last game of CHS, I was still forced to use older obsolete planes well into late 1943 because of the bottleneck issue low replacement numbers force on players. And I never actually finished upgrading all those older obsolete airframes to P-40Es by the time the game ended. I estimated it would be early to mid 1944 before all my squadrons would have finally gotten to upgrade to the P-40E…

Perhaps if squadrons were simply given an historical upgrade date and allowed to upgrade with a free full squadron of planes, then at least you won’t be forced to use 1936 airframes in 1943. But if not, then the rate per turn needs to factor in how many total airframes you need by x date to be able to make historical upgrades to all the different squadrons that use that airframe.

If the player then decides to burn through those numbers in combats, then he’s screwed himself out of having enough airframes. But as things stand, the allies will NEVER be able to make historically timed upgrades with these few numbers.

Another option might be to create one day air squadrons that arrive and then disband on a given date to place enough airframes in the pool for the units that need to upgrade on those dates. Similar to what Andy discussed using for infantry and equipment items.

Jim

[2ndACR]

One way to get around that little problem as the allies is to withdraw the air group...........especially if you get down to 1 P40E in it.......90 days later it returns full strength. I have done it with my B17 groups, B25 groups, P40E and any other air unit that gets shot to pieces.......if it takes too heavy of pilot losses, I will disband it. Either way, they return full strength 90 days later.
&nbsp;
That is a trick the allies can use, but not Japan.