Buzz's Fite Mod

[a white rabbit]

ORIGINAL: Karri

TOAW does have serious lacks regarding reconneisance. For example quite a HUGE proportion of aircraft were recon aircraft, but these would have no use in TOAW.

..so BioEd them, just tick the recon flag. Note tho that recon only works with a moving unit, an air unit changing airfields, so either fields need adding all round the map edge and the air flies from field to field till it runs out of move, a bit clumsy but works on a small map, or simpler, use the helio flag..

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Karri

TOAW does have serious lacks regarding reconneisance. For example quite a HUGE proportion of aircraft were recon aircraft, but these would have no use in TOAW.

Just reading a good book on East Front air war (but also it is very good book overall) -"Stopped at Stalingrad: The Luftwaffe and Hitler's Defeat in The East 1942-43". Recommended for all those who love East Front history.


Mario

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

ORIGINAL: Karri

TOAW does have serious lacks regarding reconneisance. For example quite a HUGE proportion of aircraft were recon aircraft, but these would have no use in TOAW.

..so BioEd them, just tick the recon flag. Note tho that recon only works with a moving unit, an air unit changing airfields, so either fields need adding all round the map edge and the air flies from field to field till it runs out of move, a bit clumsy but works on a small map, or simpler, use the helio flag..

Well that's what I was saying. It's simply not modeled. A bit better than naval warfare, but not much.

[a white rabbit]

ORIGINAL: Karri

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

ORIGINAL: Karri

TOAW does have serious lacks regarding reconneisance. For example quite a HUGE proportion of aircraft were recon aircraft, but these would have no use in TOAW.

..so BioEd them, just tick the recon flag. Note tho that recon only works with a moving unit, an air unit changing airfields, so either fields need adding all round the map edge and the air flies from field to field till it runs out of move, a bit clumsy but works on a small map, or simpler, use the helio flag..

Well that's what I was saying. It's simply not modeled. A bit better than naval warfare, but not much.

..0oh nice would be park recon-air at an airfield and have a (ranged) effect, with maybe pretty crop-circles..

..till then you got the BioEd and the helio flag, it works, cos if you don't park your recon in a protected place then you opponent just splats them, so ranged recon..

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: IronDuke


I've noticed there are two 3rd Pagr Divisions, one starting as part of AGN and the other coming in as a reinforcement on turn 182. I can't trace an intervening withdraw event in the engine. Is this an error?

I am guessing that they noticed the 3rd PzGr was created in 1943 (although it was sent to Italy not Russia). The 3rd PzGr was originally part of AGN in 1941 but was destroyed at Stalingrad. The division was subsequently re-formed (as opposed to formed) and I'm guessing this is the problem. We can't reform it when the game situation may not see it as destroyed at Stalingrad and the unit will reconstitute if it is, anyway.

Should this be removed?

Regards,
IronDuke

I agree ID, the turn 182 entry of the 3rd PzG should be removed.

[Karri]

...where can I get the latest version?

And btw. are you gonna separate the SS heavy rifle squads? I don't think that's a good idea...the ~400 heavy rifle squads are barely enough as it is. In fact it is only enough to allow a slow death.

[Zort]

Karri, I think you have the latest version but will send it to you later today. I am leaning toward separating the SS heavy rifle squads, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: Zort

Karri, I think you have the latest version but will send it to you later today. I am leaning toward separating the SS heavy rifle squads, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Oh, I did have it. But my registery rose to a rebellion and refused to work with windows and I had to re-install everything.

Anyways, can the minors reconstruct in the newest version?

[Zort]

Yes I think so. Have to reconstitute my change list.

[fogger]

Can someone advise me
1. Which is the later, FITE ver 5 or Buzz's Mod and
2. Where can you download Buzz's Mod from?
thanks.  

[sPzAbt653]

FitE 5.0 is the original, Buzz' Mod is a mod of FitE 5.0. It isn't available for download as far as I know. If Buzz doesn't send it to you I can. The latest version I have of Buzz' is 7.0 (from 11-07).

[wmorris]

In view of all the discussion of D21 I thought I'd bump the FITE mod as well. I have a lot of hours in my research and modding and am not ready to give up on producing something presentable, but I have to get back up to speed after setting this aside for months.

Can someone mail me the latest FITE mod? Is it 7.0?

wmorrisunc80 (AT) bellsouth (dot) net

EDIT:
I am doing a major refiguring of Soviet aircraft replacements, as posted in D21 thread. Its a little painstaking, but it's pretty clear that the replacement # in the original FITE are too high.

[Zort]

Sent, have fun.

Buzz

[Shazman]

Are you guys still working on this? If yes, mind if I have a look at what you've done? Shazman at cox dot net

Thanks

[wmorris]

Sent, have fun.

Buzz

Many thanks.

In answer to Shazman, I have been looking at (as a starting point) Soviet aircraft production, thinking that the numbers are much too high. At first I thought that this was too high by severalfold, but points made by others have led me to believe that the downward revision should be more modest. I am admittedly a noob at this.

Thus far I worked out a baseline on the production taking into account the timed production modifiers (turn 1 x.34, turn 48 x2.0, turn 78 x1.5, and turn 352 x1.5 if memory serves). Now I have to figure out and add in the effects of city losses, and the only way I have considered is to modify by the amount of production loss per city and the historical loss date. This loss is considerable and doesnt occur all at one time. Pretty painstaking.

The point I am at is figuring out what happens when the Russians retake production-loss cities. Reading the events, it looks like the loss is enforced dependent on German occupation and/or subsequent possession of the specified city hex. This would mean that when the Russians retook it, they would regain the 5% (or whatever %) loss. The alternative is that this is assessed once, when the Germans take it, and the Russian player never gets it back, even when he retakes the city.

Calling all experts: Which is true?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: wmorris
...this is assessed once, when the Germans take it, and the Russian player never gets it back, even when he retakes the city.

I'm thinking that once the industry gets destroyed by the Germans that even if the Russians take the city back the industry in the city is still destroyed and therefore unusable and probably can't be re-built in the time frame of the game ('41-'45) and so probably shouldn't be a reason to boost the Soviet production. I don't remember ever getting a boost as the Soviet player when playing FITE and re-capturing a lost city.

[Shazman]

The Soviet aircraft industry was moved. Over 1500 factories were moved along with their workers including the second largest steel plant in the world.

One example. The factory evacuations didn't begin in the Leningrad region until the beginning of October yet by the end of the year a former Leningrad KV factory was up and running in the Urals. They only managed to move about 95 factories from Leningrad before the German siege.

So. not so many aircraft factories were lost to the Germans. They simply went someplace else and so for a bit of time didn't produce. In 1941 they still managed to produce about 12400 aircraft and in 42 around 21700 out producing the Germans both years by about 14k aircraft total. Not bad for a 'crippled' industry.

What is really amazing about all of this is that Soviet production peaked during 1942 when the Axis advance was at it's zenith.

[SMK-at-work]

Yes the Soviets never get anything back for retaking cities.

[SMK-at-work]

Total production in FITE (I think assuming no losses) is on page 2 of this thread - posted by Karri - here's what he calculates:

Irregular squad 68 507
Military Police Squad 12 089
Mounted Rifle Squad(late) 45 839
Motorcycle squad 32 238
Light Rifle squad 81 100
Rifle squad 586 840
Heavy Rifle Squad 145 576
SMG squad 224 661
SMG AT- Squad 9 799
Assault Squad 57 163
Reconneisance Rifle Team 10 074
Reconneisance Assault Team 2 519
Engineer Squad 139 532
Rail Repair Crew 15 112
Ferry-Bridging Team 40 802
Support Squad 40 298
Command Group 16 623
Medium MG 61 958
Heavy MG 152 629
AT Rifle 202 497
Heavy AT Rifle 11 615
28mm AT Gun 2 015
45mm AT Gun 92 182
50mm AT Gun 504
57mm/6 Pounder AT Gun 8 060
76mm AT Gun 2 519
85mm AT Gun 2 529
75mm Gun 1 511
76mm Gun 73 040
76mm ER Gun 12 094
76mm Howitzer 24 683
107mm Gun 18 511
107mm ER Gun
122mm Howitzer 10 074
122mm Gun 5 541
122mm ER Gun 8 060
130mm ER Gun 63
152mm Howitzer 1 007
152mm Gun 3 022
152mm ER Gun 4 534
180mm ER Gun 504
203mm Howitzer 504
305mm Gun 40
50mm Mortar 189 834
82mm Mortar 188 393
107mm Mortar 7 052
120mm Mortar 43 824
160mm Mortar 2 454
280mm Fixed Gun
300mm Fixed Gun
400mm Fixed Gun
305mm RR Gun
Armored Train 9
82mm Katyusha MRL 1 511
82mm Katyusha SPMRL 2 519
132mm Katyusha SPMRL 8 095
300mm MRL 3 113
BM-13 132mm SPMRL 1 008
Truck SPAAMG 2 015
Dual AAMG 5 037
Quad AAMG 5 541
37mm AA Gun 22 164
76mm AA Gun 11 586
85mm AA Gun 4 534
Light Scout Car 2 789
Jeep 44 624
Medium Scout Car 2 325
Wheeled 20mm Scout 1 312
BA-10 Armored Car 31 231
BA-20 Armored Car 13 453
BA-64 Armored Car 7 989
Horse Team 256 900
Fast Horse Team 15 112
Truck 101 249
Halftrack 8 997
Amphibious Ferry 900
PzKpfw IIIJ 450
T-26 2 742
T-26(flame)
T-27
T-28(early) 40
T-28(late) 40
T-37 1 089
T-38 565
T-40 605
T-60 5 988
T-70 28 459
BT-5
BT-7 2 016
OT-7
T-35
KV-I(early) 2 261
KV-I(late) 456
KV-II 202
KV-85 215
T-34/76(early) 8 445
T-34/76(flame) 232
T-34/76(late) 28 415
T-34/85 39 360
SU-76 20 497
SU-85 4 530
SU-100 4 889
ISU-122 3 937
ISU-152 5 279
IS-II 5 627
Matilda II 1 263
Valentine(early) 4 789
M3 Lee/Grant 1 819
M4/75 Sherman 5 760
Destroyer 6
Cruiser(early) 3
Light Cruiser 3
Heavy Cruiser 3
Battlecruiser
Battleship 2
I-15
I-16 5 525
SB-2
Il-4 3 386
Il-2 51 884
LaGG-3 7 418
La-5FN 13 065
La-7 8 624
MiG-1
MiG-3 2 420
Pe-2 15 053
Su-2
Tu-2 1 417
Yak-1 18 745
Yak-4
Yak-9 32 136
Hurricane 3 747
Spitfire(late) 1 874
Lancaster(late) 2 833
Tempest 2 361
SBD Dauntless 2 833
A-20 Havoc 4 794
B-17(late) 2 015
B-26 Marauder(late) 2 015
P-39 Aircobra 8 266
P-40(late) 2 908
P-51 Mustang(late) 8 563

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Yes the Soviets never get anything back for retaking cities.

I realize it's been awhile since this thread has been active but I have to dispute this. The Soviets, upon taking ground back from the Axis, would draft every male capable of using a weapon. Training would be short since all they wanted was cannon fodder, or tank fodder in the age of armor.