Only tweaking is left

[Terminus]

Oooh, oooh, oooh, we can quit???[:D]

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

in fact most team members would probably be joyous if I let them quit! [:D].

I tested that thing again you wanted me to double check master, may I have some water now?

[madgamer2]

suck it up! we weant it in Feb. 09! Id'd like a million bucks to LOL

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

Geez first it was WE WANT IT NOW>>>>NOW>>>>>>NOW. Now we here it tweaking and almost ready and all of a sudden it LATER....LATER,,,,,,LATER..LOL. Just be glad it ain't next YEAR......IT ISN'T RIGHT?

mADGAMER

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, let me please remind EVERYONE that personal attacks are against the forum rules and will not be tolerated. I don't care how much you disagree with someone or if they rub you the wrong way, if you stoop to insults you've lost the argument.

Also, to those wondering from the outside - the AE team is very well managed. Anyone who's had project management in the "Real World" likely has no idea what managing this kind of project is like. Wargame development on a shoestring budget is an entirely different beast than any other projects I've worked on either. Almost all wargames are multi-year projects and subject to a variety of factors that simply don't exist in "normal" projects. Missing the "projected" release date by a year or more is simply not unusual, even with the best effort and intentions, especially when quality and stability is made the primary determinant of release-readiness and when the team is responsive even in the midst of development to customer feedback and requests.

I've been working closely with the AE team - these guys are very hard workers, very skilled professionals and they are doing an incredible job. The results will be worth the wait.

Regards,

- Erik

[Nomad]

To add some irony to this, I remember that SPIs boardgame version of WitP was about 15 months late also. [:D]

[CV Zuikaku]

So you are trying to tell us that AE does exist?! [X(] [&:]
If so, I have question for the naval team: are the lifeboats supported in AE? Which hexes are shark infested? Are the non swimming crew members simulated on every ship? [:D]

[Andy Mac]

To reiterate everything thats been said above we are working as hard as we can no one wants this out there more than the team.
 
Specifically re the charge that we are all playing for fun and holding it back well in additon to my day job I am turning in at least 30 - 40 hours per week on the AI and have been for well over 6 months (others have been doing similar hours on other aspects)
 
In the past I have played more PBEM turns than I care to think about literally thousands of turns and have not played a PBEM turn in 18 months because of this project and that includes AE all I do day in day out is AI and AI tweaking if Joe would let me I would have resigned months ago so believe me we want this out there soon and we are going as fast as we can.
 
I dont get upset by folks asking why there is a delay or why their are AAR's but if you note the AAR I did a few months back was only Malaya and it was only Land - for a very simple reason the air AI wasnt in then so that was all I could show you.
 
I wonder now if maybe we are communicating to much perhaps silence would be better and not upset folks.
 
Andy
 

[33Vyper]

Well......

What an interesting thread.......

Hmmmm......

What to add........

First.... I am very thankful for all of the hard work and effort that is going in to this project.

Second.... Thank you for sharing, the art...the map...the features etc... your fascinating AARs.... For me this is just building the excitement for what looks like a terrific enhancement to WITP.

Third.... To all the naysayers....come back only once per month. If it is released .... buy it....if not go away

Finally.... To all the Matrix Crew, Henderson Designs ppls, and the testing crew....take all the time you need. Your efforts are what will make this a success.

Thank you very much.

John

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I wonder now if maybe we are communicating to much perhaps silence would be better and not upset folks.

Andy

No Andy, silence would not be better. Just keep in mind that any approach will disappoint some. "You cannot please all of the people.." is still true.

Keep the info coming. Many thanks. [&o]

[RevRick]

Andy, just because, once in a while, someone forgets Mark Twain's dictum....“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” is no reason to shut down communications. Whilst one person may complain giving voice to unreason and folly, and this could, perhaps, incite others to reply (notably in defense of the project), the rest of us will wait, patiently anxious, for y'all to get this one right...

Shalom;
RevRick

Now, get cracking and hurry up!!!

[stuman]

Yamato Hugger has a good point. The guys should get am immediate raise! Double your current amount ! And I promise to drink a glass , or 3, in your honor. And if I ever meet any of you in person drinks are on me.

Projects like this take on a life of their own, and I think it's a great idea to let gamers have a hand in improving games like this, it simply takes a huge amount of time.

Also, keep with the AARs if you don't mind, I like the extra learning opportunity it provides.

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

To reiterate everything thats been said above we are working as hard as we can no one wants this out there more than the team.

Specifically re the charge that we are all playing for fun and holding it back well in additon to my day job I am turning in at least 30 - 40 hours per week on the AI and have been for well over 6 months (others have been doing similar hours on other aspects)

In the past I have played more PBEM turns than I care to think about literally thousands of turns and have not played a PBEM turn in 18 months because of this project and that includes AE all I do day in day out is AI and AI tweaking if Joe would let me I would have resigned months ago so believe me we want this out there soon and we are going as fast as we can.

I dont get upset by folks asking why there is a delay or why their are AAR's but if you note the AAR I did a few months back was only Malaya and it was only Land - for a very simple reason the air AI wasnt in then so that was all I could show you.

I wonder now if maybe we are communicating to much perhaps silence would be better and not upset folks.

Andy

I'll agree with Andy whole-heartily mostly because I play primarily against the AI with very limited time for PBEM. Mainly because my real boss likes for me to work 50+ hours a week![:@]

Many of the team members work as much as humanly possible on AE, forgoeing personal responsibilities as much as is allowed, governed by REAL LIFE circumstances and requirements. Why? Not because its 'fun', not because there is monetary reward in all of this, but because of the LOVE of the game.

Anyway, us AI'ers owed a huge debt of gratitude to Andy & AI team for taking the time necessary to basically re-write the AI to give us a more challenging (if not sometimes, a downright sneaky SOB ) AI to play against. Several of us have been surprised with some AI moves during testing to the point we thought it was a bug in the code!!! If it were up to me, I would give Andy ANOTHER year to do his magic with the AI code, but I'm sure he would quit well before then if he hasn't already![&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

TOMLABEL

[rockmedic109]

To the gallant people working on this project.  Keep up the good work and ignore any idiots posting complaints on taking too long.  We all would like it now, but we want something that is better than WITP.  And all the features and changes that have been released so far make us want it all the more.  But we also want to drool over a completed product.  I am glad that you chose to tell us you were working on AE and am am gald for the information that you put out on it.  I am thankful you've spent the extra time on the AI.  I did not realize that this set the project back, but it stands to reason whe  you think about it.
 
I had a strong personal reason for wanting AE released last March.  I've been off work since then due to medical reasons {I am hoping to get back to work in a couple weeks}.  What I should've done is offered to help in any way {data entry, testing}.  I certainly had the time {even if my treatments would've made it a little inconsistant at times}.  But having NO experience, I figured asking would've been fallen somewhere between the height of conceit and royally presumptive.

[Kaletsch2007]

ORIGINAL: 33Vyper

Well......

What an interesting thread.......

Hmmmm......

What to add........

First.... I am very thankful for all of the hard work and effort that is going in to this project.

Second.... Thank you for sharing, the art...the map...the features etc... your fascinating AARs.... For me this is just building the excitement for what looks like a terrific enhancement to WITP.

Third.... To all the naysayers....come back only once per month. If it is released .... buy it....if not go away

Finally.... To all the Matrix Crew, Henderson Designs ppls, and the testing crew....take all the time you need. Your efforts are what will make this a success.

Thank you very much.

John

Sorry John for just quoting you.
But could not agree more, with your permission, if you do not mind !!!

[Tophat1815]

 Actually if you really think about it we have had very few people getting frustrated,loosing it and putting their frustrations down in print. Compared to other games this is actually a very reasonable and mature crowd. That being said the design team is really working to crank this out for the rest of us to enjoy. After these fellows do all this grunt work for us how long will it take them to get over their burnout and actually be able to enjoy a game of AE? None of the guys involved in this project are going to get rich from it,but they all should have certainly earned our respect for all their efforts.

[CV Zuikaku]

Well, since I am mostly AI player , the good AI is my priority... and naval intercept... new air battle model, new land battle model, new industry..., new pilot training and replacement, new supply model... hmmm... OK, I'lll stop right here [;)] I have been watching the progress of the AE project since it was started. And I'm well aware that working on AE isn't fun, but hard work with the code, graphics and a shiploads of data... Personally, I have waited for AE for a few years.. and waiting for another one won't kill me. Ofcourse, I want it out badly, but you better do the good job and give us the best naval wargame ever! But I hope you understand that anxiety levels of us mortals not working on AE are rising.... we are getting nervous... and here and then, some of us will occassionally snap whilst reading your amazing AARs. It's the human psychology, and it happens when you can only look at something you can not have [;)]
So, if I ever snap, please take my apologies in advance!

[Barb]

AE Devs: I am software tester, so I know what your job is about. We all are looking forward for the AE. Just keep the work you are doing and take as much time as is needed.
Impatients: There are few things you should know about software development.
First of all, there is a request to make it. Done.
Secondly follows analysis of what exactly we want it to do, what will make it in, what will be added in patch and what is off limits. Done.
Thirdly, someone has to code it. Done.
Fourthly, someone has to test it. Here they are just now.
Fifthly, reevaluate if outcome is what we requested exactly. No?
Well the whole round has to be done once again.

If we only take 100 of things that get changed in AE, well you have to run this five elements at least once for each of the things - assuming it was coded perfectly - which is almost never the case. Then you have to make combinations of this things work together. Then you have to teach AI how to use thousands of units correctly.

Even when you have done all this for years, you will never have completely bug-free product. And I prefer a product which will have surely no A severity bugs and as few B severity bugs as possible.

I think that majority of you will preffer to begin PBEM as soon as product is out. Would you like to restart them as soon as some serious patches are released? This could result for hurried AE release. [:-]

Be patient!!!

[Ron Saueracker]

Sammy Maudlin and I just want the AE crew to know that "We love you guys!"

[jmscho]

ORIGINAL: Barb

AE Devs: I am software tester, so I know what your job is about. We all are looking forward for the AE. Just keep the work you are doing and take as much time as is needed.
Impatients: There are few things you should know about software development.
First of all, there is a request to make it. Done.
Secondly follows analysis of what exactly we want it to do, what will make it in, what will be added in patch and what is off limits. Done.
Thirdly, someone has to code it. Done.
Fourthly, someone has to test it. Here they are just now.
Fifthly, reevaluate if outcome is what we requested exactly. No?
Well the whole round has to be done once again.

Sorry Barb, I disagree.

I am responsible for a key piece of software handling eye-wateringly large amounts of money (not in the banking sector). Version 1 went live 2 years ago. Versions 6 and 7 are in production now and are still not bug free. If we had waited until they were 100% to spec, the business would have folded. There is a point when management needs to be able to say enough is enough and release it warts and all.

Although I am itching to get my hands on AE I leave that final decision to them But if we all want it bug free it will never materialise.

John