YH v TS - round 3 <no 8 legged creatures>

[Yamato hugger]

And the wheels on the bus go round and round:

The planning process begins. I have 3 days to put together my first turn and I plan on using that to my advantage. I will keep a running commentary of what I plan to do and why and toss in some screen shots for fresh baked bread (but its got to be right out of the oven HOT).

[greg_slith]

Yipee

[Japan]

Very Nice sir Yamato hugger&nbsp;,&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks alot Sir.

[Yamato hugger]

Well, first step in my planning process was to go through and check current ship data and make sure that my "stock" TF configurations were still what I wanted to do, and I found it to need some tweeking.

The AA values and ASW values of a lot of ships have changed. Fubukis are only half converted for example. The 9 unconverted Fubuki Is have an AA/ASW strength of 48/0 while the post-convertion Fubuki IIs (10 of them) are 213/4! The Fubuki Is can convert to IIs starting Jan 42, so I will use them in low risk areas of the South China Sea until I can get them converted.

Below is conversion data on converting a Fubuki I to II:
I used to use Yugumos and Musukis as my main carrier escort, but Fubuki IIs will be mainstay in AE. I need 18 for my 3 carrier groups and will have 19 after the Is are converted. But until they are I will use 8 Asashios (189/2). Kageros were my BB escort and will remain so in AE (189/2). My 4 Akitsukis (213/4) will cover my CVLs.



I plan 8 CL groups (2 CLs plus 4 Mutsuki and Minekaze class DDs). 1 of these CL groups only has the Yubari in it with 4 DDs. This is a slight change from my stock organization (I used 5 or 6 DDs with the 2 CLs in stock) because this configuration gives me exactly 19,380 tons in each TF meaning they can dock at a level 3 port. The DDs start with poor ratings (90/0) but they upgrade in Jan 42 to 166/4 for Minekazis and 135/4 for the Mutsukis.

Shiratsuyus will be formed into 2 TFs of 5 each (139/2). Hatsushimas will have all 6 in 1 TF (139/2). and the 5 Momos (0/0) will go to Japan and wait until they convert (to 85/2) in Jan.

The 3 Katori CLs will be invasion TF leaders and will have the 20 "E" escorts and 18 of my 52 Ansyu PBs. The remaining 34 Ansyus along with 31 Kiso and 34 To'so PBs will be used for convoy escorts.

My 13 TBs will be divided as they were in the last game 1 TF of 4 and 3 of 3 and used to intercept fleeing AKs. I have 5 APDs that combined can carry the 41st Gd Bn and a handful of supplies so they will grab that unit and run around securing undefended bases.

I also have 23 SCs with an ASW rating of 4 and 24 more with a rating of 8. These will be used as point defense ASW patrols (they only have a 25 hex range). And my 4 MTBs and 2 MGB will be formed into 2 TFs of 1 MGB and 2 MTB each.

[Dili]

Can you show us about those Kiso,Toso,Ansyu ?Anshu Patrol Boats?

Another question, that fuel/oil/cargo capacity is additive or total? I ask because i just read a report about supply in Mediterranean and Italian Destroyers and even Torpedo Boats and submarines took fuel, weapons and personnel to Africa.

[Q-Ball]

Those are higher AA numbers for IJN DD's than in WITP. What changed, the way AA values are calculated, or does the IJN start with more AA guns?

(I did notice this Fubuki (I) config has 4 25mm AA guns; in stock you don't get any 25mm on Fubuki until '43 IIRC. If this makes a 213 AA value, does that also include the 6 x 5in DP guns?)

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, first step in my planning process was to go through and check current ship data and make sure that my "stock" TF configurations were still what I wanted to do, and I found it to need some tweeking.

The AA values and ASW values of a lot of ships have changed. Fubukis are only half converted for example. The 9 unconverted Fubuki Is have an AA/ASW strength of 48/0 while the post-convertion Fubuki IIs (10 of them) are 213/4! The Fubuki Is can convert to IIs starting Jan 42, so I will use them in low risk areas of the South China Sea until I can get them converted.

Below is conversion data on converting a Fubuki I to II:
I used to use Yugumos and Musukis as my main carrier escort, but Fubuki IIs will be mainstay in AE. I need 18 for my 3 carrier groups and will have 19 after the Is are converted. But until they are I will use 8 Asashios (189/2). Kageros were my BB escort and will remain so in AE (189/2). My 4 Akitsukis (213/4) will cover my CVLs.



I plan 8 CL groups (2 CLs plus 4 Mutsuki and Minekaze class DDs). 1 of these CL groups only has the Yubari in it with 4 DDs. This is a slight change from my stock organization (I used 5 or 6 DDs with the 2 CLs in stock) because this configuration gives me exactly 19,380 tons in each TF meaning they can dock at a level 3 port. The DDs start with poor ratings (90/0) but they upgrade in Jan 42 to 166/4 for Minekazis and 135/4 for the Mutsukis.

Shiratsuyus will be formed into 2 TFs of 5 each (139/2). Hatsushimas will have all 6 in 1 TF (139/2). and the 5 Momos (0/0) will go to Japan and wait until they convert (to 85/2) in Jan.

The 3 Katori CLs will be invasion TF leaders and will have the 20 "E" escorts and 18 of my 52 Ansyu PBs. The remaining 34 Ansyus along with 31 Kiso and 34 To'so PBs will be used for convoy escorts.

My 13 TBs will be divided as they were in the last game 1 TF of 4 and 3 of 3 and used to intercept fleeing AKs. I have 5 APDs that combined can carry the 41st Gd Bn and a handful of supplies so they will grab that unit and run around securing undefended bases.

I also have 23 SCs with an ASW rating of 4 and 24 more with a rating of 8. These will be used as point defense ASW patrols (they only have a 25 hex range). And my 4 MTBs and 2 MGB will be formed into 2 TFs of 1 MGB and 2 MTB each.

God, what little I have learned of this game (the hard way), you guys are going to force me to unlearn and start anew ......
Nothing like progress [;)]

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: scout1

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, first step in my planning process was to go through and check current ship data and make sure that my "stock" TF configurations were still what I wanted to do, and I found it to need some tweeking.

The AA values and ASW values of a lot of ships have changed. Fubukis are only half converted for example. The 9 unconverted Fubuki Is have an AA/ASW strength of 48/0 while the post-convertion Fubuki IIs (10 of them) are 213/4! The Fubuki Is can convert to IIs starting Jan 42, so I will use them in low risk areas of the South China Sea until I can get them converted.

Below is conversion data on converting a Fubuki I to II:
I used to use Yugumos and Musukis as my main carrier escort, but Fubuki IIs will be mainstay in AE. I need 18 for my 3 carrier groups and will have 19 after the Is are converted. But until they are I will use 8 Asashios (189/2). Kageros were my BB escort and will remain so in AE (189/2). My 4 Akitsukis (213/4) will cover my CVLs.



I plan 8 CL groups (2 CLs plus 4 Mutsuki and Minekaze class DDs). 1 of these CL groups only has the Yubari in it with 4 DDs. This is a slight change from my stock organization (I used 5 or 6 DDs with the 2 CLs in stock) because this configuration gives me exactly 19,380 tons in each TF meaning they can dock at a level 3 port. The DDs start with poor ratings (90/0) but they upgrade in Jan 42 to 166/4 for Minekazis and 135/4 for the Mutsukis.

Shiratsuyus will be formed into 2 TFs of 5 each (139/2). Hatsushimas will have all 6 in 1 TF (139/2). and the 5 Momos (0/0) will go to Japan and wait until they convert (to 85/2) in Jan.

The 3 Katori CLs will be invasion TF leaders and will have the 20 "E" escorts and 18 of my 52 Ansyu PBs. The remaining 34 Ansyus along with 31 Kiso and 34 To'so PBs will be used for convoy escorts.

My 13 TBs will be divided as they were in the last game 1 TF of 4 and 3 of 3 and used to intercept fleeing AKs. I have 5 APDs that combined can carry the 41st Gd Bn and a handful of supplies so they will grab that unit and run around securing undefended bases.

I also have 23 SCs with an ASW rating of 4 and 24 more with a rating of 8. These will be used as point defense ASW patrols (they only have a 25 hex range). And my 4 MTBs and 2 MGB will be formed into 2 TFs of 1 MGB and 2 MTB each.

God, what little I have learned of this game (the hard way), you guys are going to force me to unlearn and start anew ......
Nothing like progress [;)]

btw ..... Love it ..... and can't wait (but then again have no choice, now do I ?) [8D]

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I plan 8 CL groups (2 CLs plus 4 Mutsuki and Minekaze class DDs). 1 of these CL groups only has the Yubari in it with 4 DDs. This is a slight change from my stock organization (I used 5 or 6 DDs with the 2 CLs in stock) because this configuration gives me exactly 19,380 tons in each TF meaning they can dock at a level 3 port.

My head is starting to hurt, and I think it's from sympathetic oxygen deprivation. The steepness of the learning cliff I was sort of prepared for......but the height?? [;)] What the hell, bring it on!

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Can you show us about those Kiso,Toso,Ansyu ?Anshu Patrol Boats?

Another question, that fuel/oil/cargo capacity is additive or total? I ask because i just read a report about supply in Mediterranean and Italian Destroyers and even Torpedo Boats and submarines took fuel, weapons and personnel to Africa.

They are all pretty similar. The To'sos have a single 80mm and 1 D/C rack (ASW is still 2 however). Anshus have an ASW of 3.

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Those are higher AA numbers for IJN DD's than in WITP. What changed, the way AA values are calculated, or does the IJN start with more AA guns?

(I did notice this Fubuki (I) config has 4 25mm AA guns; in stock you don't get any 25mm on Fubuki until '43 IIRC. If this makes a 213 AA value, does that also include the 6 x 5in DP guns?)

Im guessing that the 5" on the Is arent rated as DP because thats the only difference between the Is and IIs is the additional 25mm (well and the D/C rack).

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I plan 8 CL groups (2 CLs plus 4 Mutsuki and Minekaze class DDs). 1 of these CL groups only has the Yubari in it with 4 DDs. This is a slight change from my stock organization (I used 5 or 6 DDs with the 2 CLs in stock) because this configuration gives me exactly 19,380 tons in each TF meaning they can dock at a level 3 port.

My head is starting to hurt, and I think it's from sympathetic oxygen deprivation. The steepness of the learning cliff I was sort of prepared for......but the height?? [;)] What the hell, bring it on!

Will be a lot of trial and error for a while thats for sure. Last game I had a temper tantrum on Don because the KB didnt reload their sorties when they got to Truk. I didnt know that they had put op points into bases now also and it took 2 days to fill them all up.

[Grotius]

they had put op points into bases now

They did? Wow.

[Ron Saueracker]

Just look at this baby...... Detail heaven.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Can you show us about those Kiso,Toso,Ansyu ?Anshu Patrol Boats?

Another question, that fuel/oil/cargo capacity is additive or total? I ask because i just read a report about supply in Mediterranean and Italian Destroyers and even Torpedo Boats and submarines took fuel, weapons and personnel to Africa.

Part B of your question I didnt get to answer. You will see in that screenshot on the far right 2nd paragraph up from the bottom where is says aircraft cap, troop cap, cargo cap, fuel cap. Ships are rated in each category now. Yes, you can put troops into cargo area, or fuel in cargo area, ect just like you could in stock and at the same rates as in WitP.

[Yamato hugger]

All I can say is my boys had their Wheaties this morning:

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 68
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 126


Allied aircraft
P-26A x 1
P-40B Warhawk x 1


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 10 destroyed, 28 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-26A: 1 destroyed
P-26A: 3 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 1 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 43 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 8 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 26 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 7 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 3 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 8 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 6 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 15 destroyed on ground
O-47: 3 destroyed on ground
R3D: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
SNJ-3 Texan: 1 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 11 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher : 13 destroyed

Allied Ships
AV Tangier
BB California, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DM Tracy, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Henley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
SS Narwhal, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DM Montgomery
DM Preble, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Conyngham, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PT-29, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DM Breese, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Trevor, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DM Ramsay, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Selfridge, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Helena, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
DD Farragut, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Allen, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AVP Swan, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Detroit, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Litchfield, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Reid, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
SS Cachalot, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Schley, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Downes, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Laida, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CM Oglala, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AVP Avocet, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS Wasmuth, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Patterson, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS Dolphin, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DMS Zane, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AD Dobbin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT-23, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Repair Shipyard hits 5
Airbase hits 51
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 222


CL Jintsu took a single bomb hit and blew up her magazine. 1 Mini reported a hit on the Tennessee. All those ships reported as sunk up there really are. That is accurate. 1 Jap pilot proving how cocky he is put a torp into a PT!

Force Z escaped without being attacked again.

[castor troy]

Holy crap! Guess you´ve sunk 6 or 7 BBs! [X(] Does this perhaps relate to the toggle "use torp"? Can you also use this toggle during the first turn? Would hat mean that suddenly ALL Kates drop torps? Hope it´s hardcoded that you can´t use this toggle within KB during the first turn, IMO best would be to not even having a die roll but just the historical numbers of torps used.

When I look at the sunken ship list and at the replay then I do think that there were FAR too many torps used. Far too many. And not one ship sunk due to a 800kg AP bomb, really looks like there wasn´t a single one used.

Don´t know how many torps were really used in the historic attack but could it be that you even achieved more torp HITS than there were even used torps in the real attack? [X(]

[Yamato hugger]

Actually 2 of the 6 Kate groups hit the airfield (Shokaku and Zuikaku). This was a "historical" first move.

But on the plus side, look at all the space Im saving him in his repair yards [:)]

[Honda]

I have played in all less the 10 first turns in WitP all together. Roughly speaking, 8 times I sunk zero BBs, once one or two, and once 6(!). Same setting every time. Despite what we say about WitP, the variations in results can actually be huge - although very rarely

[Yamato hugger]

A "typical" result from AE is 1 to 3 BBs sunk, 2 or 3 more in the barn for a long time and the rest patched up in a few months. I got very very lucky. I have had lots of test runs where I didnt sink any. I have yet to actually launch an attack on Force Z against a player. I do it a lot vs the AI, but not once against a player.

[Mistmatz]

Thanks for the new AAR and the pictures YH.

Two questions:

a)The PB Kiso Maru is assigned to Combined Fleet according to your screenshot. Are there any similar limitations as for LCUs for naval vessels introduced with AE or ist this just flavour?

b) Does facing for AA weapons matter in vessel against aircraft combat now? I believe it didn't in stock.

[rjopel]

The Ship sunk report shows the Achilles and the Java as being sunk at Pearl?
&nbsp;
That doesn't seem correct.&nbsp; Neither ship should be anywhere near Pearl.