Interesting Sea Battle

[balto]

For PBEMers, I guess there is some sort of Instant Battle for Naval also?  If so, can we see have a screenshot of the Naval Instant Battle, and some input on strategy in this area?  Wait, this might be boring..,

[iamspamus]

Hmmm. "Crossing the T" was very hard to do. It didn't happen all that often. I'm not sure that it even happened in the Napoleonic period. It was a goal that everyone strove for, similar to the double envelopment inspired by the Battle of Cannae. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be an option, but it shouldn't happen all that often.

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

this starting set up for the defender, is more they are at ancor, they try to hold there line and let you come into them

which most battles this will set up a crossing the T type of battle

only, I got the English, and they can sail a bit better then most, I was able to close in, and tack into the wind, and then turn so I formed my own line

what was a major pain, I ended up, losing sight of the targets, due to smoke, so, each time, you got blocked in, you needed to close the range some more

from that top shot, you can see some of the smoke, but it got much worse, also, one of the target ships is on fire

[iamspamus]

Interesting this. I assume that it is simulating Nelson's closing with the enemy tactics, right? So, they get blatted while going in, but if they can survive this, they should be hell on whales or maybe waves. (Couldn't say "wheels" here, sorry.) [:D]

I think that at Trafalgar, they came in in three columns. Not sure if they were they were one after another

<<<<<<

or in a V pattern

-----<
---<
<
---<
-----<

But interesting, none-the-less. (Had to add the dashes to keep the pattern.)

Another interesting point of this is that this is the OPPOSITE of what the Brits did on the land. On land they generally stood in a line and blatted the French as they came on in assault columns. The Brits got it right on land (line) and on sea (advancing columns). Darn Brits. [8|]

Jason

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I have 3 of the French Fleets grounded (locked in port) this is the last one running, I sent Nelson after him, and hoped to catch him

which I did

I got numbers and I got SOLs, those can hurt you bad in a battle

got a funny wind this time, looks like it is on my side, but it is not letting me turn with it, so driving in close and then hopeing to turn

[Hard Sarge]

well, remember, alot of this is going to be decided, by the range you start at, the wind state, who is the attacker and defender, and overall, this not a common set up

I am basicly running Sea Battles tests, so am getting alot of battles, happened to get two of these, and wanted to show that not every fight is going to be Bow to Bow, and that there are different ways to crack the same nut

[Randomizer]

I am hopeful that the naval system in CoG-EE allows the use of historical naval tactics to produce historically plausible results. Based on the screen shots here the prognosis looks good so far. Some posters here seem unfamilier with naval tactics in the Age of Sail so what follows is my take on what the screen shots are showing. The Naval system in CoG-EE really looks impressive!

In the days of the wooden ship there were essentially two tactical schools of thought. One was the Line of Battle where ideally First to Third rates sailed in bow to stern column and slugged it our broadside to broadside. The other was the Melee where the aim was to “break” the line, applying overwhelming firepower at a decisive point. Trafalgar (1805) was a melee but the Nile (1798), Copenhagen (1801) and Camperdown (1797) were as well and all resulted in the effective annihilation of the defeated fleet. One of the key components of a successful Melee was the concept of “Doubling” where the broadsides of two (or more) ships could be concentrated on one target ship. The screen shot in Post #13 shows several good examples of this technique.

The problem with the Line of Battle is that it was almost never possible to secure a decision since the fleet on the lee (downwind) side always had the option to run. Only when land was present was it practical to force an annihilating melee although the Royal Navy broke the French line on the Glorious First of June (1794) and the Spanish line (more a cluster of ships than a formal line of battle) at Cape St. Vincent (1797).

The Dutch Navy subscribed to the Melee school as well and as a result the Battle of Camperdown was one of the few decisive melees fought out on the high seas. It was also relatively bloodier than Trafalgar because both sides strove for close action from the outset.

Most other period navies preferred the Line of Battle since fleets were so expensive Admirals were reluctant to risk them and so in the Baltic the Russians and Swedes fought a number of textbook Line of Battle style fleet actions but could never achieve decisive results.

The Line Abreast approach shown in the screen shots was not common for the attackers seeking a melee but here it appears to make sense since he seems to already have overwhelming superiority. Generally, an approach in line was desirable since it concentrated the damage to the attacking columns in the first few ships but there were notable exceptions. Admiral Duncan’s main body at Camperdown hit the Dutch line in what can charitably be described as a gaggle.

Horatio Nelson did not “invent” Melee naval combat but he was probably its most able and ruthless practitioner.

Hope nobody minds this short, very general primer on period naval tactics. It certainly looks like CoG-EE captures the essence of Napoleonic combat at sea and I am lined up and ready to purchase.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: iamspamus

Interesting this. I assume that it is simulating Nelson's closing with the enemy tactics, right? So, they get blatted while going in, but if they can survive this, they should be hell on whales or maybe waves. (Couldn't say "wheels" here, sorry.) [:D]

I think that at Trafalgar, they came in in three columns. Not sure if they were they were one after another

Two columns in line astern (what you outlined as <<<<<<), aiming to break the French/Spanish fleet into 3 parts, from my limited study.

Until reading a recent book about Trafalgar I had not known that the French and Spanish both had inferior gunnery doctrine which dictated aiming for the rigging and upper decks of enemy ships. I had thought that the British advantage was exclusively to do with superior training and leadership and thats certainly not the case.

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: balto

For PBEMers, I guess there is some sort of Instant Battle for Naval also?  If so, can we see have a screenshot of the Naval Instant Battle, and some input on strategy in this area?  Wait, this might be boring..,

It is boring: you just get the results of the battle in the previous turn's Event Report and Battle Report. So you know the end results of the battle. (As you can probably imagine by looking at the screenshots, PBEM for naval combat would take months and months to resolve, making it essentially impossible to finish a game of COG:EE by PBEM.)

[Fubar]

After having just tried the Naval scenario in the new Empire Total War demo and being totally let down by it imagine my surprise when i googled this thread up......i nearly fainted.&nbsp;[:D]

This looks like just the sort of game i've been waiting for, ever since i played Age Of Sail all those moons ago i've been waiting for a decent Nappy game that covered Naval combat as well.

I cant wait till this hits the shelves, best of luck with it. [&o]

Now to go and read through all my books on Naval combat (and theres a lot, trust me [X(]).

TTFN

[Steely Glint]

So ships that are player-built get generic names, while historical ships get real names?

We ought to be able to name the ships we build.

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

So ships that are player-built get generic names, while historical ships get real names?

We ought to be able to name the ships we build.

You can rename your ships. Land units, too.

[Hard Sarge]

Diplos too ! (at least the ones you build, I never tried with any of the ones at start ?)

I normally like to name my captured guns, and any troops that I build for a reason (like Lt Cav with lots of Scouting upgrades, or a Lancer with Chargeing and Flanking upgrades)

I also like to rename a unit if it did something "extra" during a battle

[Hard Sarge]

just thought I would post a shot from one of my battles yesterday

as you can see, it was a confusing one, as you can see, I almost got ships going every way I can (in fact a little later, I think did !)

[Hard Sarge]

and the reason, after a couple of nice battles, I ran into the Med and to the southern French ports for repair (3rd Fleet got hit and ran to Spain along with a number of my battle prizes, plus I just got the Dane Fleet, which I didn't count on, and it caught hell trying to reach port)

[moose1999]

I'm gonna have so much fun playing Denmark and showing the Royal Navy who's boss.
Sarge - how big a motuhful is the Royal Navy when playing against them?
Are they as hard to beat as they should be?

[Hard Sarge]

well...

I am suppost to be one of the better HW players around (other people say that, I don't, other then to say, other people say that:)

and you notice I said, I RAN, so, can the AI or can the English spank you if you make a mistake ? yeapper, they got a lot of ships, they got a lot of good ships, they got alot of BIG ships, they got a lot of upgrades, they can sail fancy, and they can hit what they shoot at

and as I also said, my Dutch Fleet is in port, chased there, my Danish Fleet is running for Port, my 3rd Fleet was chased into a Spainish Port and my main Battle Fleet and my Scouting Fleet are refitting in the Med Ports

and I am winning the war at sea

[Hard Sarge]

okay current test run, my fleets

my Danish Fleet if it makes it to port, it is running there now

[Hard Sarge]

my Dutch Fleet, I had hoped to slip it out, then forgot that I was at war with the Swedes, won that battle, but then ran into the Russians and they chased me into port

[Hard Sarge]

my 3rd Fleet, stuck in Spain

[Hard Sarge]

in the back ground you can see a English Fleet being repaired in the Rock, and another English Fleet, blockaging the Spainish port with 2 Spainish Fleets in port

[Hard Sarge]

some of my war prizes stuck in port, I have to refit and leave my Southern Ports to free them