YH v TS - round 3 <no 8 legged creatures>

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Does anyone know what these numbers look like in 1943 or 1944?

Has anyone even tried to move 90K of resources into Honshu per day for a complete month (2.73 million resources), is it even possible?

Can Japan even afford to expand any factories? I hope there is an undo button for any factory changes, so that players can change a factory, see the results on the net change on resources, HI, supplies, oil, etc., then change it back if they don't like the effect on resources or go over budget.

I also hope there is a better way to expand a factory than to just to double it, ability to change a factory by the number of airframes, engines, etc.

There have been several AI v AI games run into '46. I have never played the AI past Dec 9th so I cant answer what it looks like in 43-44. In fact I have only gotten stock into 44 once [;)]

As far as it being possible, I would think it wouldnt be a problem. I did a quick spot check and there are 169 ships in the Jap "at start" forces that are 6142t or larger and figuring an average of 6500t for these 169 ships that would net you close to 1.1 million tons just in the big ones alone and you can see from the attached pic that it isnt even close to all of the available AKs at start.

As for the specific factory operations, I will be getting into that in a few hours.



This list is sorted by capacity and looking at the slider bars position and knowing that where it is now is about 175 ships I would estimate the Japs have around 1500 AKs. This is JUST AKs, doesnt count the TKs, AOs, APs, ect.

[Caesaren]

Going back to that screen shot on the Pearl Harbor attack, how did you manage to get 73 torpedo hits?&nbsp; I thought there were fewer than 40 planes carrying torpedoes in the real attack, and you only had 144 Kates and some were supposed to be horizontal bombers.

&nbsp;
Yes, we want a realistic game, but (sorry John) do we really need all of the game full realistic? When yes, when we want to play the 2nd worldwar like the real 2nd worldwar, then it will be better to read a history book.
Just&nbsp;after the gameplay will start, the game&nbsp;and the real will be even more different.
&nbsp;
--please excuse my bad english--

[Yamato hugger]

Some interesting things in the air units I am finding as far as upgrades. We are playing PDUs on this game (most of the testing to date has been with them off) and some of the units (not all, mainly detachments from what I have seen) can make some nice upgrades. Like I saw a Jake group that upgrades to Zeros, and a Babs that can upgrade to Tojos.

Some of the detachments are because of mixed types in the parent group at the beginning of the war and the 13th Sentai for example parent is Nates and the detachment is Babs. So the detachment can upgrade to anything that a Babs can upgrade to and also everything that the parent can upgrade to. Once you upgrade it from 1 type to another (the Babs to Nate for example) it cant go back to being a recon squadron. So make sure you really want to do these upgrades before you do them.

However, 1 standard upgrade to Jap float planes seems to be to the float Zero (Rufe).

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Some interesting things in the air units I am finding as far as upgrades. We are playing PDUs on this game (most of the testing to date has been with them off) and some of the units (not all, mainly detachments from what I have seen) can make some nice upgrades. Like I saw a Jake group that upgrades to Zeros, and a Babs that can upgrade to Tojos.

Some of the detachments are because of mixed types in the parent group at the beginning of the war and the 13th Sentai for example parent is Nates and the detachment is Babs. So the detachment can upgrade to anything that a Babs can upgrade to and also everything that the parent can upgrade to. Once you upgrade it from 1 type to another (the Babs to Nate for example) it cant go back to being a recon squadron. So make sure you really want to do these upgrades before you do them.

However, 1 standard upgrade to Jap float planes seems to be to the float Zero (Rufe).

That is interesting, but wouldn't the pilots be trained for the wrong skills? Wouldn't the former-Bab, now Nate pilots be real good at Recon, not so hot at dogfighting? Or how does that work?

Just curious, as I understand pilots are not "generic" in AE.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

That is interesting, but wouldn't the pilots be trained for the wrong skills? Wouldn't the former-Bab, now Nate pilots be real good at Recon, not so hot at dogfighting? Or how does that work?

Just curious, as I understand pilots are not "generic" in AE.

Well in this case, it appears they were fighter pilots BEFORE they got their Babs. Here is the "Babs" equipped detachment:



Highest recon in the squadron is 49. But look at them air to air skills.

[Barb]

Actually:
In november 1941 Japans total shipping amounted to 6,720,000 grt of ships over 100 tons. Servicable were 5,980,000 grt including 360,000 grt of tankers

of these 3 milions grt of shipping was reserved for nonmilitary use.
Army get 2,100,000grt until end of march, then figures were lowered each month to reach 1 milion grt at july.
Navy got 1,800,000grt each month (270,000 grt of tankers included)

[Ron Saueracker]

Still can't get my head around an 86 air to air exp level with no air to air kills, perhaps even combat. C'mon guys, he is 14 % away from friggin perfect!!! Can't anyone tone down the experience levels for a change? Like, if this guys rating is 86, what would hmmmmm Marseille's, Galland's, or Hartmann's be? 200, 300, 400, 1000? Tone down the skill percentile please, otherwise there is no point to them.

[Dili]

Maybe he made kills against Chinese. But yeah 86 seems too much.

[Mistmatz]

Quite an impressive list of AKs. Is there a possibility to avoid the AI controlled convoy system and use the waypoint system or any other semiautomatic method to establish trade routes and ease required player interaction?
Like pick up resources from point A unload at point B and eventually avoid subs by using waypoint C and D.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Quite an impressive list of AKs. Is there a possibility to avoid the AI controlled convoy system and use the waypoint system or any other semiautomatic method to establish trade routes and ease required player interaction?
Like pick up resources from point A unload at point B and eventually avoid subs by using waypoint C and D.

Yes.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Barb

Actually:
In november 1941 Japans total shipping amounted to 6,720,000 grt of ships over 100 tons. Servicable were 5,980,000 grt including 360,000 grt of tankers

of these 3 milions grt of shipping was reserved for nonmilitary use.
Army get 2,100,000grt until end of march, then figures were lowered each month to reach 1 milion grt at july.
Navy got 1,800,000grt each month (270,000 grt of tankers included)

Just to clarify: the increased supply demands in AE of the Japanease industry is used to reflect the need for non-military supply to come back to the Home Islands?

And I have no idea how to get numbers that Barb posted above, but is this about the same feel that you get in AE? In other words, that about 1/2 of your total shipping is being used to run supplies?

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[Yamato hugger]

Japanese air production (PDUs on):

In analyzing Japanese production my first step was to look at what the capabilities are of the various aircraft what they were good at, what they are bad at and decide if its a type I actually want to produce. So to that end, we're off:

Fighters:
A5M (Claude) v A6M (Zero). The Claude is actually more maneuverable than the Zero below 16k and much more so under 10k. Its range with drop tanks is a respectable 10 hexes v Zeros 14 with tanks but its gun value is only a 4 v the Zeros 12. For this reason it should not be used on CAP as it doesnt have the firepower to knock down bombers. A5M has no factories at start and needless to say you want to convert these squadrons to Zeros as soon as possible. The Zero starts with 56 factories which I plan to add to.

KI-27 (Nate) v KI-43 (Oscar). No contest. The Nate shouldnt be used for anything. It has a dismal 3 hex (4 extended) range a 10 hex transfer range making it very hard to even move! A gun rating of 4 makes it overall a very bad airplane. It is more maneuverable than the Claude even, but still not as much as the Oscar. Oscar only has a 6 gun rating, but its the best you have until mid-42. You start with 45 Nate factories that dont upgrade to anything, so I will convert these to another type. KI-43 Ic starts with 32 (and 8 more damaged).

Dive Bombers:
D3A1 (Val). Thats it. 12 factories at start.

Torpedo Bombers:
B4Y (Jean) v B5M (Mabel) v B5N1 (Kate) v B5N2 (Kate). Japs start with no TBs in production. The Kate 1s and 2s are even R&D aircraft at start (although you have some in your pool at start) not coming on-line until 4/42. The only good thing to say about the Jean is it carries a torpedo. The Mabel is actually over all your best B5 model because of maneuverability and range. I will convert some factories to the B5M (40-50 I would say).

Navy Level Bombers:
G3M (Nell) v G4M (Betty). In stock these were a wash as far as which is better. In AE The G4M1 is better than the G3M2 because of a range advantage (6 hexes further normal and 7 extended). The Nell starts with 22 factories and upgrades to the G3M3 which has a longer range than any of the G4Ms so it may be worthwhile to keep this plane in service. The G4M starts with 25 in production.

Army Bombers:
Army bombers dont dive. The determining factor that was chosen was if it had dive breaks. Therefore none of the army dive bombers are worth keeping. You have 23 Sally plants at start and probably want to keep these producing until 4/42 when the Helen comes on line and you might want to keep the 30 some Lily-1s (although turn it off) until it converts to the Lily-2 because you haev a recon squadron that can convert to the Lily-2 but the 30+ Idas and 30+ Sonias you should convert on turn 1. No reason to keep them.

Recon:
Dinah v Babs is a no brainer. You want Dinahs for range.

Transports:
Tabby isnt available until 1944 and there arent that many squadrons that can use the Tina. Tina and Topsy are your only real choices of course, but you wont need many Tinas.

[Grotius]

D3A1 (Val). Thats it. 12 factories at start.

So, less than stock. I take it you'll expand these factories ASAP? Also, are they all at one location? In stock, they're produced at Tokyo and Nagoya, I think?

the 30+ Idas and 30+ Sonias you should convert on turn 1. No reason to keep them.

What can you convert them to? And, more importantly, what should you convert them to?

Tabby isnt available until 1944

Ouch - my favorite transport. Why not til 1944? Wasn't it used in the New Guinea campaign, for example? I thought Japan built quite a few of these.

[Kull]

At this stage of the development, I think it's highly unlikely that the AE Team has concocted a Resource dependence/requirements model which is "broken" or too complicated to understand. We are seeing a tiny snapshot in the course of an AAR -&nbsp;lets' not draw any global-level conclusions from that.

[pad152]

Glad to see you can keep older aircraft in production![:)]

Can you do anything other than double a factories production, like increase by the number of airframes?

[Yamato hugger]

Nope.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
Just to clarify: the increased supply demands in AE of the Japanease industry is used to reflect the need for non-military supply to come back to the Home Islands?

A more accurate way to put it is that the overall demands of the Japanese industry (both civilian and military) are included in the calculations for AE.

And I have no idea how to get numbers that Barb posted above, but is this about the same feel that you get in AE? In other words, that about 1/2 of your total shipping is being used to run supplies?

Thanks in advance.

Chad

This will need to be answered by those playtesting the game.

Andrew

[Yamato hugger]

This game we are playing with "Realistic R&D" which is a settable option in the at start options screen. What this means is I cant convert any R&D factories to aircraft actually producing. More importantly I cant switch actual production to R&D so I have to be careful about whats being developed.

I expanded the Vals to 48 aircraft (36 currently damaged). I switched all my Nates over to Oscars (adding 37). I jacked up my Zeros by 32, and put the Mabel into production with 42. Doubled my Betty production to 50, raised my Mavis production from 6 to 24. Sallys doubled to 46, added 32 Dinahs to the 11 they have at start, added 42 Topsys to the 6 they have and shut off my 31 Lily-1s. I didnt do a lot with R&D factories, but I did add a few Helens and A6M3s.

Engine factories I had to crank up Ha-33 production a lot. I am going to need 257 so I jacked that up as much as it would allow. I started with 65 and it would only let me add 165 more so Im sitting short about 27 on these but I can live with that.

I needed Ha-5s for the added Topsys so I converted a Hitachi that I didnt need anymore to these. Ha-31s were also brought up by 40 by converting an older type. My Ha-35 production is running far more than I need. I have 180 and I need 152. These are Zero and Oscar engines.

This is all I will modify in regard to production at this time. I will revist it once a month just after the first of the month and make adjustments.

[fabertong]

'Realistic r&d'.....what a great idea...........so much to love about AE.........so many new things........I'd take my hat off to you all.....if I had a hat.......

[Przemcio231]

Hmmm qestion will the manual have upgrade paths and such shown???