Interesting Sea Battle

[ericbabe]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
I realize this isn’t going to be a detailed naval simulation, but trying to get realistic behavior in battles should not be overlooked because of that.

Thanks for your interest in our game.

There are no sloops in the game; frigates are the smallest ships.

Frigates can in fact move faster close-hauled than ships-of-the-line. Our movement tables should reflect every nuance I could find in comparable rule-sets for age of sail games, and according to statistics listed by Gardiner's "Frigates of the Napoleonic Wars." It sounds as though you're quite knowledgeable about the maneuverability of sailing ships, and I'd love to get your feedback on our movement tables, and any other areas of our rules that might interest you, if you wouldn't mind looking them over.

The AI is programmed to calculate odds and to try to withdraw from battles when the odds are against it. We might always further adjust the parameters it uses, but the algorithm is there to do that.

We try to design our games to be as realistic as possible while still being enjoyable, but we do put the emphasis on making the games fun. Having to play out a pursuit that lasts hours or even several days using 5 minutes turns might be realism, but it just wouldn't be fun, so we make the assumption that when fleets engage, the possibly long pursuit leading up the engagement has already been accomplished. Similarly, players aren't forced to play-out pursuit after combat on land.

Rules for frigates in fleet actions has always been an area of concern for me. In initial incarnations of the game, I didn't allow it at all; then we allowed frigates to join actions but never to move to engage SOTL's. However, after coming across several important accounts of frigates in fleet actions (Camperdown, Aboukir Bay, First of June... I'm sure you could probably even give me more examples), I decided that we might best allow frigates in fleet actions after all, even if it does make it more difficult to adjust AI behavior and other complicated calculations. On the whole, I think it is better to do it this way more often than not.

[Joram]

Whoops, there you go, guess I fight too many even battles to have noticed.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe
Thanks for your interest in our game.

No problem Ericbabe, I'm a definite buyer no matter what. Knowing how games evolve, I felt discussing what I perceived to be a problem could only help to improve the simulation further down the road.

I'd be glad to comment further on the movement tables, but I'll be waiting to purchase the physical + digital, so I won't have the game for another week or two it seems. [:(]

I have no doubt however there are plenty of fans here that are even more knowledgeable than I on the age of sail, so perhaps a healthy debate will crop up on its own in the interim.

As to the AI not fleeing, I totally understand what is simulated in the strategic pre-battle die rolls and agree wholeheartedly that once the French decided or were forced to fight, that they'd engage before they fled the tactical map.

But what doesn't seem to be simulated is the fact the French would have attempted to refuse boarding action by trying to stay at range once the fight began. Especially since the British were allowing the French to cross the T on the first turn they turned to try and move towards them. No captain would give up such a gunnery advantage by allowing his ships to be grappled if presented with such a gift unless windage or shoreline prevented him from keeping range by maneuver.

There should have been a period where a broadside duel was necessary to diminish the French ships speed by demasting some ships and forcing the line to break so the British could then close to board. That's what I mean when I say they would have turned away.

Jim

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Randomizer
the largest warship in the world, a statement that ships of the line could not sail to windward is clearly wrong.

I never said they couldn’t maintain a course to windward, I said they couldn’t sail “into” the wind. In the screenshots shown, sarge turned his fleet directly towards the French line and was amongst them in short order. I saw no indication that a tack/change of course was ever made once he turned into the wind.

Even if we assume tacking is abstracted into the movement rates of the vessels, the fact he was into their line before they even moved more than a few hexes along their course shows they are moving too fast for vessels moving into the wind.

1 or 2 knots means it would take hours to cross the distance the fleets started at and there would be many, many tacks to accomplish that move. All the while the French line would simply sail along on their course with the wind giving them far more energy than the advancing British would have been getting, and eventually they’d be far out of range.

Jim

Jim
not fair, I am not showing every screen, every move, I didn't show each tack and turn, also, I am not showing every boardside, or results of my vollies, I am trying to pick and chose, and if I see something I think may be interesting

I am not showing everything, just like in a HW screeny, I don't show every step of a flanking move, I just show what happens when the flanking move works

I mean, it is touchy, trying to do a AAR, or show some screenies, you got to pick and choice what you think somebody would be interested in

I was just trying to show that not all battles are bow to bow, or bow to stern

[Hard Sarge]

Jim

I am confused, you are saying that the French wouldn't of let me close to board, when did I ever say I was boarding them ? I fight to knock there sails off, or break there hulls, I don't try to board them

also, look at my big ships, they are turning and firing at range, in the first set, I turned as I got close enough, and stayed on there flank, the ships that would be past there flank, sailed to pass them by and then turn into them with the wind

I think you are complaining about stuff in the game, or stuff I am doing, that I am not saying I am doing ?

the 2nd set, I had the numbers and firepower, so I wanted to rush the action, before the French decided to give up and run away

also, 600 yards, isn't that pretty much well with in firing range ?