How/when to employ US CVTF

[Crimguy]

I know, I should know this after 4 years or so, but I have the most ineffective CV task forces out there.

1) When can the US take the offensive regarding carrier to carrier ops? In my latest game, it's 5/5/42 and KB is loitering around Port Moresby. At least 3 flattops. I have a 4 carrier TF at Brisbane. I'm scared to go after them.

2) What is the best composition for a CV TF? How many carriers, CA's etc?

Anyone know a good thread pls point me to it.

Thanks!

[DuckofTindalos]

You definitely need the 6/42 ship upgrades complete first. After that, use single-carrier TF's, with escorts as appropriate. Minimizes the risk of strike disruption, and the risk of the Japs smacking all your carriers about in one go.

[wworld7]

I'm a chicken and would wait until you upgrade your TBDs to TBFs.

Good hunting.

[DuckofTindalos]

Oh yeah, "attack where he ain't" is a very valid strategy. If KB is sitting around Port Moresby, how about launching a carrier raid on Kwajalein or Eniwetok?

[String]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah, "attack where he ain't" is a very valid strategy. If KB is sitting around Port Moresby, how about launching a carrier raid on Kwajalein or Eniwetok?

Or even better, Tokyo harbor?

It's amazing how many japanese players leave only a few squadrons of floatplanes at the home islands.

[khyberbill]

I know, I should know this after 4 years or so, but I have the most ineffective CV task forces out there.

1) When can the US take the offensive regarding carrier to carrier ops? In my latest game, it's 5/5/42 and KB is loitering around Port Moresby. At least 3 flattops. I have a 4 carrier TF at Brisbane. I'm scared to go after them.

2) What is the best composition for a CV TF? How many carriers, CA's etc?

Anyone know a good thread pls point me to it.

Thanks!

_____________________________

I am a master of getting my carriers sunk. I think I watched the movie about the battle of Midway too often. Now I wont try to go head to head against the KB unless I have support from LBA in the form of CAP and bombers. The basic problem is that the Japanese can strike you from 6 hexes, and you cant strike back unless you surprise them. So, unless you think you have a nice trap set, then I would caution patience until you can afford to take a big hit and then strike back. Terminus mentioned one cv per TF, which is a good idea. I will not put more than two in a TF since I once had had four go down at once and limit the total size to 15 ships.

One last caution, stay away from Japanese LBA as well. In a recent game, I was playing Japan and attacked two CV TF's each with four CVs. I had 32 Bettys and Nells and 18 A6m3s and 6 A6ms against a CAP of 153 F4F-4s. I sunk the Enterprise. My opponent said exp was at least 60. We were playing two day turns and I got two torpedo hits the first day, and the computer left the Enterprise by itself on the second day (the first day I hit the TF's as they were leaving Tulagi)and I sunk the Enterprise on the second day.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah, "attack where he ain't" is a very valid strategy. If KB is sitting around Port Moresby, how about launching a carrier raid on Kwajalein or Eniwetok?

Or even better, Tokyo harbor?

It's amazing how many japanese players leave only a few squadrons of floatplanes at the home islands.

True... I never was that audacious, but I have launched a few early-war raids against the northern tip of the Home Islands (just before they turn into the Kurile chain). There's some industrial infrastructure up there that's fun to bomb. If you play Allies, time works for you, not the other fella.

[Crimguy]

Well, I'm a glutton. I didn't see your responses until after I set off for them.

I had every sub in the area converge on my projected path for KB. Amazingly, one sub got 3 hits on Akagi. My intel was telling me I had only 2 flattops there, and I thought one was going down. Surely my 4 CV's should kick the snot out of them right?

Well, I approached at full speed. I was spotted by their scouts. They came after me with about 50 bombers with escort. I had 100 F4F-3's up as CAP and took care of that wave nicely. I'm still 5 hexes away and I can't counter attack.

Then the next wave came . . . from 4 hexes to the NW. A second CV group was apparently tailing the first, with 3-4 carriers. Wave after wave came at me. To make a long story short, Lex will go down next turn (99Sys, 56 fire), and every other CV I have has between 55-80 Sys damage. None can make steam for more than 13 knots. I expect all of them to be on the bottom in the next 2 days.

Another lesson learned. It was painfully fascinating to watch. I've lost tons of carriers but never 4 in a 3 day period.

[RUPD3658]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

I've lost tons of carriers but never 4 in a 3 day period.

I lost all 6 Allied CVs in a single day so don't feel so bad.

What I was going to suggest was to take the TBDs off and replace them with Marine Wildcats for extra protection. I geuss the point is moot now.

[Ambassador]

Sometimes, you can get lucky.
 
I'm in late December '41 (CHS experimental vs AI), I've spent all my PPs to reinforce Rabaul, mostly with dutch fighters & bombers, and brought all CVs nearby.
KB has been loitering east of Bismarck Archipelago, reinforced with Zuiho/Ryujo.  Their fighters got slightly depleted by the week-long fight against dutch & australian fighters (all my land-based squadrons are empty now...), and with Enterprise, Saratoga & Lexington coming along the northern side of the Solomons, I decided to press forth (for story reasons : there had been no battle between US and Jap CVs, so no reason in this game to chicken out).  Lexington got sunk, Enterprise is heavily damaged, but Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, Shokaku & Hiryu are closed, and some of them might sink on their way to Truk.  I'm happy with that result, even if Enterprise sinks in the next few days.[:D]
 
Out of curiosity, I've rerun the turn while resetting the RND, and all three of my CVs got sunk for slight damage on two Jap CVs.  Luck...[8|][&o]

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

I'm a chicken and would wait until you upgrade your TBDs to TBFs.

Good hunting.

I might wait until I get Skyraiders and maybe Crusaders.

[51st Highland Div]

Just waiting for the "Final Countdown" mod to appear with the USS Nimitz to deal with those bad KB boys...or has it appeared already lol ? [:)]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Just waiting for the "Final Countdown" mod to appear with the USS Nimitz to deal with those bad KB boys...or has it appeared already lol ? [:)]

Supposedly one was done, although someone claimed it was for PacWar or some other game.

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Just waiting for the "Final Countdown" mod to appear with the USS Nimitz to deal with those bad KB boys...or has it appeared already lol ? [:)]

I haven't seen that movie in ages. Was Kirk Douglas in it ?

[sven6345789]

the mod was in the VG boardgame "Carrier", a solitaire game about the south pacific carrier battles. You just get the Nimitz. and then you blow half of the japanese fleet out of the water.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

the mod was in the VG boardgame "Carrier", a solitaire game about the south pacific carrier battles. You just get the Nimitz. and then you blow half of the japanese fleet out of the water.

hmmm... iirc, someone also did a mod... [&:]

[Misconduct]

Here's a valid tactic worked for me, had 2 carriers in reserve 8/15/42 off Southland which I took, loaded southland with 2 P40s and 2 wildcat groups full strength and high moral, a third carrier went to bomb out Rubaul which the AI responded by sending Shoho which got sunk by my single carrier operating north of rubaul. What I did was sent the Enterprise around rubaul on a sunday drive, only time she was out of CAP range from southland and moresby was the tip north of rubaul which was 1 turn, anyhow this attracted Shokaku and Ryuho to the fight, secondly I dropped a raider bat. on end of Rubaul to take an island and spark interest in defending even more, and pulled enterprise down to southlands CAP range, Shokaku fell for the bait and got sunk, Ryuho tried to escape back north to truk, but sent all 3 carriers to sink her, lucky me the blanket of subs I had picked her up and put a single torp in her, and later sunk by 3 carriers.

Interestingly I had 2 carriers sunk by a 1,000lb bomb in 8/15/42 by Dive bombers of enterprise, I guess she was first to strike that would probably be why.
Ryuho was sunk by a Mk 13 Torp, credited to my sub. Anyhow I was surpised to see a ship sunk by the 1,000lb bomb.
3 Jap carriers sunk, 5 CA's and a CL. Oh and my Raider Bat got wiped out sadly, but because of them the japanese sent the cruisers to bombard my landing ships (fast transports which were long gone)

Edit - Best carrier group is one thats in range of land based CAP and bombers, otherwise make sure you have hellcats or better before putting your hand in a cookie jar.

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

Anyhow I was surpised to see a ship sunk by the 1,000lb bomb.

Play a bit more, and you'll see that the 1.000-pounders are major sinkers. They're devastating.[;)]

[John Lansford]

Well, since the 500 lb bombs tend to bounce off the bigger IJN fleet carriers, it stands to reason that the bigger bombs are what end up killing them.  Especially since early on the US torpedoes don't work so well either.

[bobogoboom]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

I'm a chicken and would wait until you upgrade your TBDs to TBFs.

Good hunting.

I dissagree i onetime took out 4 jap cvs with tbd to the loss of one of my carriers because my opp didn't think i would strike that early with my cvs and i was able to get my carriers in close enough for tdb range cause he was loitering around the next island group he wanted to strike. the key is the situation and how the opp is operating. a lot of jap player use the kb like it's an unstoppable death star in 1942. and if you wait till they have used up opps and the pilots are fatiged you can get some good wins.

i dissagree on the 6/42 btw your gonna lose an allied cv or 2 but the tradeoff for you is will worth it. as long as it is single cv tfs go for it.