My Old Kentucky Home

[New York Jets]

I'm just returning to the game but, I remember I used to (as the Union) wait patiently for Kentucky to choose sides and it seemed that the Rebs always took Kentucky first and it was a real b1tch taking it back.

So, I decided in my latest game to take the bull by the balls and I have invaded Kentucky in August '61. Granted, I paid 100 PP's but I have noticed it seems it will be much easier pushing into Tennessee as the war goes on.

This thread is mostly to get input/opinions on where others stand both militarily and philisophically on this issue. I mean, we don't think twice about subduing West Virginia or Missouri but, Kentucky has always (in all of the myriad of Civil War games I have played) been sort of 'hands off' and wait for them to decide.

All opinions welcomed.

[Doc o War]

Chris- with the guys I have been playing- its a race to see who will jump in to  kentucky first- Its all about August for the Union or not- The Confeds can get screwed if they jump in too early and it goes Union- I have seen that happen- its like a 40% chance in August- anyway- with Kentucky union it releases a whole lot of troops later that would otherwise be on Partisan duty- so that can stay the rebs hand- Then again if the reb jumps in early they can get Paducah- fortify it and put in heavy guns and cut the rivers- that is bad for the Union.
  But then a Confederate Kentucky is tough also- neutral is best- but doesnt often happen.
   Its all about Initiative and placement with the new Kentucky invasion rules- and I have seen both sides fail to get it-  Kentucky is a first major hurtle in this game.

[kennonlightfoot]

The new Kentucky rules make it a bit tougher for either side to quickly take Kentucky but I still favor the Union going in on the first turn they have two initiatives to do it in (one in Cairo and one in Cincinnati.  Since overruns and amphibious aren't allowed on the first invasion turn neither side can take Kentucky in one bite anymore.  But the Union with the two initiatives and a cavalry can take three regions which is the most they can usually get.  Setting up for the followup turn is the most important thing now.  Have a large force in Cairo ready to exploit or counter any Rebel move.  If it gets full initiative or even just Grant you might be able to take Humbolt.  In Cincinnati I set up a lot of one unit cavalry so they can overrun anything the Rebels disn't manage to get units too.

[Erik Rutins]

Personally, I think in the original released version, going into Kentucky early made sense. In the current version, it makes more sense to follow the historical strategy and wait until it's much less likely to turn against you. A Kentucky that goes permanently for one side or the other can be a game-changer.

[New York Jets]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Personally, I think in the original released version, going into Kentucky early made sense. In the current version, it makes more sense to follow the historical strategy and wait until it's much less likely to turn against you. A Kentucky that goes permanently for one side or the other can be a game-changer.

What exactly are the 'new' rules on Kentucky alignment? I have heard a variety of refernces to this and am not aware of the 'new' rules.

[Joel Billings]

From the Rules Addendum throught 1.030:

19. Change to section 15.2.1 (Kentucky Neutrality) - On the player-turn on which Kentucky is first invaded, no overrun combat is allowed, and no amphibious invasions of Kentucky are allowed. At the end of this player-turn combat will be immediately executed in all Kentucky regions containing combat units.

[Erik Rutins]

It used to be possible to grab virtually all of Kentucky in one go if you were a very prepared invader. That made the risk worth the reward, since all the PPs you'd gain as well as the strategic position would counterbalance the worst case of Kentucky joining the other side.

Now you can only take half or less of Kentucky before your opponent can march in, so your opponent will always have a chance to contest it and that makes it a much more dangerous situation if Kentucky goes to the other side. You also may not earn enough PPs to offset the early large penalties, so it's best to wait until the penalty and risk decreases a bit and until your army is prepared to take and hold rather than just grab with a few cavalry brigades.

[Treefrog]

I think it all comes down to how much you want Paducah for your side. The Union will always get into the regions next to the border river and the CSA will always occupy the regions on the Tennessee Border. But whoever invades gets Paducah.

[Doc o War]

Indeed Paducah was the key to the whole deal in the region- makes for some excitement early on. The early Kentucky Campaign was one of the great lost chances of the South- now you get to re-live the thills and chills.

[Rexor]

ORIGINAL: Treefrog

I think it all comes down to how much you want Paducah for your side. The Union will always get into the regions next to the border river and the CSA will always occupy the regions on the Tennessee Border. But whoever invades gets Paducah.

Spot on--and I just lost Paducah to the Rebs. [:(] What's the best way to overcome this?

I'm really new to this game, and love the challenge of it. There's an awful lot under the hood, and I think it makes for one of the most realistic simulations I've come across. Unfortunately, that means I've got to crack the Confederate nut at Paducah, and I know it's not going to be easy. Will I be able to make amphibious crossings into Kentucky now that the South has already invaded?

[GShock]

You can beat the rebels by assaulting all spots at the same time. They definitely have not enough manpower to defend the coast and if you put pressure on Richmond, KY and TN will be the first ones to fall. It gets easier when the blockade starts to hit the rebel troops with lack of supplies. Amass troops in Cairo and wait for the right moment. Try to attack with as many unscouted units as you can while increasing your cavalry numbers to defend from rebel scouts and scouting back yourself. Position gunboats on call for the attack. Their help against the rebel hvy arty will be useful.

There's no chance for amphibious invasions PAST paducah due to the hvy artillery in place.

[Rexor]

ORIGINAL: GShock

You can beat the rebels by assaulting all spots at the same time. They definitely have not enough manpower to defend the coast and if you put pressure on Richmond, KY and TN will be the first ones to fall. It gets easier when the blockade starts to hit the rebel troops with lack of supplies. Amass troops in Cairo and wait for the right moment. Try to attack with as many unscouted units as you can while increasing your cavalry numbers to defend from rebel scouts and scouting back yourself. Position gunboats on call for the attack. Their help against the rebel hvy arty will be useful.

There's no chance for amphibious invasions PAST paducah due to the hvy artillery in place.

Yeah, I've written off amphibs below Paducah. I have Halleck down in Arkansas, but there's no hope of crossing there until Kentucky's been taken care of. By the way, how is massing in Cairo a good idea now that Paducah is a fortress? Won't I be blasted by heavies even if I attempt to invade upriver from Cairo?

[Joel Billings]

You can cross at "ferry points" (rair/road corssings of rivers) and attack (with some disadvantages in combat IIRC). So a direct attack is possible without getting shot by heavy artillery op fire.

[Doc o War]

With The Rebs in paducah you can either go around or attack straight in- both can work- both can fail- war is like that.

[Rexor]

By the way, I've been using St. Louis as my western theater commander's HQ, as it has factories, pops, and a port. Is Cairo that much better? Or do most of you use it as an Army HQ and keep the theater HQ in St. Louis?

[Treefrog]

Rexor,
An early thread suggests building a factory in Cairo on turn one. When it is on line you'll be at the max combination of 4 population/factories when you use it as a base for operations in 1862.

Until then St. Louis, Mo. or Springfield, Ill. are good Western Theatra TC HQ regions, depending on whether the one you use reaches the 6 regions to regions you are operating in.

If you let the CSA hold Paducah, not only can they mount heavy artillery in a level one fort there (a mixed blessing at best) to interdict all your riverine movement, but a CSA reaction force at whatever region has Ft. Henry/Ft. Donelson can cover from Paducah all the way east along the Tennessee-Kentucky border on the railroad line north of Nashville. That is a huge defensive advantage, unless you get initiative for two Western Theatre ACs simultaneously, in which case you'll probably just lose one of them and hope it is not a strategic defeat.

[klunick]

ORIGINAL: Rexor

ORIGINAL: GShock

You can beat the rebels by assaulting all spots at the same time. They definitely have not enough manpower to defend the coast and if you put pressure on Richmond, KY and TN will be the first ones to fall. It gets easier when the blockade starts to hit the rebel troops with lack of supplies. Amass troops in Cairo and wait for the right moment. Try to attack with as many unscouted units as you can while increasing your cavalry numbers to defend from rebel scouts and scouting back yourself. Position gunboats on call for the attack. Their help against the rebel hvy arty will be useful.

There's no chance for amphibious invasions PAST paducah due to the hvy artillery in place.

Yeah, I've written off amphibs below Paducah. I have Halleck down in Arkansas, but there's no hope of crossing there until Kentucky's been taken care of. By the way, how is massing in Cairo a good idea now that Paducah is a fortress? Won't I be blasted by heavies even if I attempt to invade upriver from Cairo?

Haha, not so. I build up a force of at least 6-10 gunboats and put them under a decent 2 star leader. You will lose some gunboats, but I hit the artillery first for a couple of turns and wear them down. In my current game I managed to slip right around Paducah and into Humboldt and cut the rebs off. Of course, you have to hit Paducah with a force at the same time you are doing the end run or they will just react and take out your amphibious assault.