Questions regarding Guards

[Mus]

I have some questions about Guards. In the manual it says that any Guard unit whos morale drops below 8 will revert to a standard infantry unit and will never be able to become a Guard unit again.

This means a drop in Initial Morale, not Current Morale in combat (as a result of casualties and other factors in battle that can be rallied and are restored after the battle IIRC) right? I have seen a Guard units morale drop below 8 in combat but the unit did not become a standard infantry during or after the battle. Also I have seen my Imperial Guard unit as France receive a bunch of reinforcements and its morale never drops below 8.0 so I was wondering HOW exactly a Guard units morale drops below 8? Does getting defeated or routed lower initial morale after a battle or is the only way for a Guard to become a standard infantry to be a Prisoner of War?

Thanks. I hope somebody knows these details they seem a little vague in the manual.

[Joram]

I do believe replacements should be able to lower a guard units morale below 8.  You may still see some guard icons in the strength (similar to how you see militia in the unit strength for low morale line troops) but I do not think it then has the morale bonus affect to neighboring units.
 
Also, any unit that is taken POW suffers a morale loss and a guard can lose it's status this way.
 
And finally as you surmised, morale in an individual battle does not lower the guard status.  Thus your guard can actually rout away and maintain it's guard status for the next battle.  Though if your guard does rout away in a battle you might have bigger issues! 

[moose1999]

Is there no way at all to restore a unit to guard status?
Or to make sure it only gets high-morale replacements?
They are very expensive to build and if they risk loosing their special benefits after just a few thousand replacements - which could easily happen in one single battle - they might not be worth the investment in the long run...

[dude]

From what the manual states there is no way to restore the guard status.  That plus the fact that the manual states that when you create a guard unit it reduces the moral of ALL your other inf units (I forget the amount) I'm not sure I'll be building any more guards.  I've done very well playing Great Britain and just building very high moral Inf units (build them in a province with the largest barracks.)
 
 

[Joram]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

Is there no way at all to restore a unit to guard status?
Or to make sure it only gets high-morale replacements?
They are very expensive to build and if they risk loosing their special benefits after just a few thousand replacements - which could easily happen in one single battle - they might not be worth the investment in the long run...

Possibly ... but remember that all else being equal, high morale troops do more damage and can take more damage before routing. Combine that with the Guards ability to raise nearby units morale, then they are quite a useful unit. Agree there are some cons with it too but that's kind of what you need to decide to see what works for you.

[Russian Guard]

This is also a reason it makes sense to play Guard units somewhat historically, and not commit them in every battle like they were any other Infantry unit. Hold them behind your line, using their Guard status to bolster morale of weakening units in front of them. Commit them to combat only when you can make a decisive push or cases when you absolutely feel you need them.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Joram

I do believe replacements should be able to lower a guard units morale below 8.  You may still see some guard icons in the strength (similar to how you see militia in the unit strength for low morale line troops) but I do not think it then has the morale bonus affect to neighboring units.

I dont think it does. I have run several tests now just sending reinforcements to my Imperial Guard as France in 1805 and the morale drops a little with each batch of replacements until it gets to 8 and then stays there even as the reinforcements continue coming in. Replacement quality is 4.50 morale.

So basically from what Im reading the only way currently for a Guard to lose its Guard status is by being captured in battle?

[Mus]

Does anyone know if the morale boost provided by Guard units is visible in the combat report?

[Mus]

On further testing I discovered that a Guard unit built from scratch has no description in the unit box under its name whereas all the "Guard" units in the 1805 scenario say "Inf" in this box and have a Guard icon in their unit box under their name and Inf tag and have morale > 8 but may not actually be Guards. These units even look like Guards in detailed combat but dont seem to be boosting adjacent infantry morale.

Furthermore in the Manual it states:

Regular infantry units’ Morale also cannot climb higher than 8.0.
The only infantry units that can have Morale >8.0 are Guard

Based on my investigation this might not be the case. Can somebody from WCS chime in here?

I did some additional testing and neither type of "Guard" seems to be giving surrounding infantry units morale boosts, making it hard to tell whats up.

[Joram]

I do not believe the morale bonus is shown on the combat report.   One way I think this can be tested is by putting a guard unit right next to a unit before firing it and then save the game.  Fire the unit and note all references to it's morale.  Reload the game, move the guard unit away from it a few hexes and then refire that original unit.  Tricky part is to be sure that AI doesn't have a turn in between though it should still work if you note the morale.
 
I might try this later myself but am expecting to be on a train in a little bit.

[balto]

If someone does this test,, please let us know.

[Mus]

Dont believe that would work as a test since the counterfire would remove a random amount of morale.

In the manual it says what order the Morale reductions and boosts are applied in the turn sequence, if that is accurate I can check at the end of a turn a unit has fired on and then check it next turn and see if it has the .2 increase from being next to a guard unit before its engaged in combat again. I wasnt seeing it in my tests.

[Mus]

OK I think I figured it out.
 
I think maybe Guards dont boost morale back up to levels you start a battle in because some of that morale is bonus morale from leaders.  They only boost the unit back up to initial morale.

[Russian Guard]

ORIGINAL: Mus

OK I think I figured it out.

I think maybe Guards dont boost morale back up to levels you start a battle in because some of that morale is bonus morale from leaders.  They only boost the unit back up to initial morale.

Per the manual, Guards only raise morale of an adjacent unit whose Morale has dropped (or started) below 4.0. The Guard increase is + .2.

Also note that the Elite Guard Upgrade increases the range of the Guard Morale influence.