Economy Again

[balto]

Economy Again, sorry.

1803 Prussia, in Brandenburg. I put max in Iron and says +11 Iron.

I create an INF to lower the Brandendurg Men from 4 to 3. It still makes +11 Iron.

[morganbj]

Well, just because you built the unit there doesn't mean that the men came from there.  They can come from an adjacent province, as well.  See what you have there the turn before, and waht you have there now.  My guess is that they'll be the same.  If not, then someone else will have to answer this one.
 

[balto]

As soon as I hit the build Inf button, it immediately went from 4 to 3.  And Iron output stayed the same.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: balto

As soon as I hit the build Inf button, it immediately went from 4 to 3.  And Iron output stayed the same.

I think I read somewhere that you only get modifiers to production if less than 50% of max manpower has been used. So you'd need to drop to 1 manpower in a 4 pop max province. But it could be you get a mod at 2 and then a further mod at 1 as I'm not clear on what the rule said (only read the manual once so far and it was a cursory read). It very well could have said production was reduced at 50%, not below 50%, and then reduced even more if you go below the 50%.

Jim

[Hard Sarge]

how much Iron did that province make the next turn ? 

[balto]

HS, thank you again for your excellent responses.  I did NOT click forward to the next turn, but I completely understand where you are going with that.  If you have to click to the next turn to see an impact, that would be aggravating because you would not be seeing the impact of your decisions.  But I hear you.

I could not find that 50% of manpower thing..I found that for just Money.  But I could not find that for anything else.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: balto
I could not find that 50% of manpower thing..I found that for just Money.  But I could not find that for anything else.

Yeah, I went in and looked, and what I had read was just for money production. As far as I can tell, the manual simply doesn't cover production of other resources at all. Definatley a major oversight by the manual guys.

Jim

[glozier]

ORIGINAL: balto

Economy Again, sorry.

1803 Prussia, in Brandenburg. I put max in Iron and says +11 Iron.

I create an INF to lower the Brandendurg Men from 4 to 3. It still makes +11 Iron.

What you observed is correct. 'Iron' production does NOT depend on the number of 'Men' in a province. 'Iron' production depends on the province's base iron production (2 for Brandenburg), the labor allocation slider, factory bonus and other bonuses.

Only 'Labor' and 'Textile' production depends on the number of 'Men' in a province. All other production is calculated like 'Iron'.

I based this on my careful reading of the manual, looking at the data files and testing with the game.

Here are some other Economy observations you might find useful.

1. I believe there is no fractional production. If you set the labor slider to product 1.5 units, you'll only get 1. Thus you should set a slider just at the point where production increases.

2. Changing the 'Textile' labor slider changes production by the full amount of the change not just by one half the amount.

3. A provinces produces a minimum of one labor even when the formula for labor calculates a value less than one.

George

[Hard Sarge]

but remember things change each turn, so while you may have a province set to build two trees (grow ?/cut down)

something may change, and when you come back next turn, you are only getting 1, so I agree with the point made, something it is better to leave a little extra in the slider bar

[balto]

Isn't the LABOR ALLOCATION slider based on the % of the number of MEN?

If you are correct (and you probably are), then if the SLIDER is at 50% it represents the same output for a province of 2 as it does a province of 16?

ORIGINAL: glozier

ORIGINAL: balto

Economy Again, sorry.

1803 Prussia, in Brandenburg. I put max in Iron and says +11 Iron.

I create an INF to lower the Brandendurg Men from 4 to 3. It still makes +11 Iron.

What you observed is correct. 'Iron' production does NOT depend on the number of 'Men' in a province. 'Iron' production depends on the province's base iron production (2 for Brandenburg), the labor allocation slider, factory bonus and other bonuses.

Only 'Labor' and 'Textile' production depends on the number of 'Men' in a province. All other production is calculated like 'Iron'.

I based this on my careful reading of the manual, looking at the data files and testing with the game.

Here are some other Economy observations you might find useful.

1. I believe there is no fractional production. If you set the labor slider to product 1.5 units, you'll only get 1. Thus you should set a slider just at the point where production increases.

2. Changing the 'Textile' labor slider changes production by the full amount of the change not just by one half the amount.

3. A provinces produces a minimum of one labor even when the formula for labor calculates a value less than one.

George

[glozier]

ORIGINAL: balto

Isn't the LABOR ALLOCATION slider based on the % of the number of MEN?

No, it has nothing to do with the number of MEN. It just controls the value of a variable that is used to calculate production quantities. I understand the confusion. At first I thought the same thing. After all the term "LABOR ALLOCATION" strongly suggests an allocation of MEN to the various production areas. However a careful reading of section 11.2.3 (Summary of Resource Production) suggests otherwise. I verified this by looking at production for provinces with different quantites of MEN.

ORIGINAL: balto

If you are correct (and you probably are), then if the SLIDER is at 50% it represents the same output for a province of 2 as it does a province of 16?

Yes, if all else (base production & developments) are equal. However, for LABOR and TEXTILES the number of MEN does matter. This suggests using your high population provinces to produce these.

[balto]

Glozier, outstanding.  Thank you for explaining that so clearly.

[glozier]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

but remember things change each turn, so while you may have a province set to build two trees (grow ?/cut down)

something may change, and when you come back next turn, you are only getting 1, so I agree with the point made, something it is better to leave a little extra in the slider bar

This is true if you have the spare points. However, testing out the advance economy rules as Sweden, I often didn't have points to spare to pad the slider settings. Fortunately, I found things were rather stable as long as your National Morale was stable or rising. You don't need to pad the sliders. You just need to adjust the sliders when a province's MEN value changes or when a development is completed.

On another note, I found the A.I.'s management of the sliders to be lousy.

George

[Anthropoid]

I had noticed that putting a slider at 10%, or 25% or 50% or 75% produced different +# values for various resources, and I anticipated it was because of the base production of those provinces not being equal, along with infrastructure. Hadn't really studied the manual but it sounds like what I had concluded was correct.
 
Also noticed that moving agriculture high can change not just food, but wine and horse output for some provinces. End result: I totally reset all the provinces so that each one is "specialized," i.e., making what they are best at making, and not wasting allocations for things that are not resulting in a +# over there under the "produced in this province" rows.
 
In sum: fiddle with it, and see where you get more production for any given thing. Adjust your Ag downward to see what drops. In some cases you can adjust your Ag quite low and still get the same +1 horse and +1 wine that you got with it set fairly high, although food will go down. In some provinces, you can turn Iron up to 90% and get only +1 or +2, whereas in others you'll bet +2 at about 30% and +8 at 80%! Same slight differences for all the resources. Take your time, fiddle with it, and figure out the best way to max your production.
 
Obviously it goes without saying that where you build additional infrastructure should be guided by what a province is well-suited to produce. No point in building Courts in some backwater agricultural province where Farms would be more suited to upping output of horses, or livestock or food.

[glozier]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Also noticed that moving agriculture high can change not just food, but wine and horse output for some provinces. End result: I totally reset all the provinces so that each one is "specialized," i.e., making what they are best at making, and not wasting allocations for things that are not resulting in a +# over there under the "produced in this province" rows.

Yes you are correct about the agriculture production slider. The textile slider (wool, cotton & textiles) and the luxury slider (spices & luxuries) also control the production of multiple items. The iron and wood sliders only control one item each. Quite often a province will have a base production of zero in wool or iron. Then its slider should be kept at zero.

The file "COG2Provinces.txt" in the scenario folders contains the base production values for each province.

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

Really not sure on this but I seem to remember from somewhere that altering Province figuers doesn't just affect that province but also impinges on the National stockpile; so I'm reading this as that if you say, set wood to zero in a province and up say the Iron, the zero figuer for wood will still affect national output of wood, therefore it is best to leave a little on all resourses.

As I may well have got the wrong end of the stick here, can someone clarify please?

All the Best
Peter

[Ironclad]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Yeah, I went in and looked, and what I had read was just for money production. As far as I can tell, the manual simply doesn't cover production of other resources at all. Definatley a major oversight by the manual guys.

Details of the advanced economy (with the other resources) are in the separate appendix. Also there is in-game help via F1.

[morganbj]

Kingmaker,
 
Tradable resources (wood,iron, wool, etc.) are produced at the province level, but all go into the national "pool" where they are collected and then consumed.  Setting the production slider in a province does not impact the national pool unless it results in increased production for the single province that was adjusted.
 
Actually, it is not always a good idea to leave sliders producing one resource of some type when those slider points could be on another slider where the produce two resources of some other type.  Of course, since you dump everything into a national pool anyway, you have to look at the current province's production potential in relation to what all of the other provinces can produce.  That means you sometimes have to produce a resource in a province just because you can get a little of it produced, since you may not be able to produce that resource any where else.
 
Does any of that make sense?

[Kingmaker]

HiHi
 
Brilliant! BJ [&o]
 
So Iwas right then ... I was wrong!!! [8|]
 
Again "Thanks"
 
All the Best
Peter

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Kingmaker,

Tradable resources (wood,iron, wool, etc.) are produced at the province level, but all go into the national "pool" where they are collected and then consumed.  Setting the production slider in a province does not impact the national pool unless it results in increased production for the single province that was adjusted.

Actually, it is not always a good idea to leave sliders producing one resource of some type when those slider points could be on another slider where the produce two resources of some other type.  Of course, since you dump everything into a national pool anyway, you have to look at the current province's production potential in relation to what all of the other provinces can produce.  That means you sometimes have to produce a resource in a province just because you can get a little of it produced, since you may not be able to produce that resource any where else.

Does any of that make sense?

Uhhh, you're basically agreeing with what I said up above there, uhh? Right?