MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs?

[Scott_WAR]

Ala Cartman's amusement park from South Park. Nobody is allowed in, so naturally everyone wants in that much more.

[String]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: String
*shrug* Well must have been you then. Never had such experiences.

Not at all, look at the Eve forums (or the Eve University ones, I think they are public).

Do a find for 'advanced station piloting', you'll find plenty of references to it. [:D]

Here you go, String, this is how laid back and freedom promoting Eve works with the newbie friendly Eve University.

Please read the wartime rules carefully. They are somewhere above this post. They are there for your own good.

If you do not follow them expect reprimands, losing your ship, podding or even being booted from the E-Uni (Most likely after several warnings and discussions with ILN Admiral Silentbrick. I cannot recommend following the rules in wartime enough.

Here are some recent results related to me:

My fleet found a Unista HAULING......DURING WARTIME........IN LO-SEC - Forcefully removed from ship, using missiles.

My fleet spotted a Unista in a Pod, passing through Obanen, today. After he refused convos from several senior members of the E-Uni (Since no Directors were online) and after the fleet had returned, I was in an Inty with scouts hunting for him. Sadly I did not have enough time to get him. - I am glad to say that after continuing to act unpleasantly in corp chat, he removed himself from the E-Uni.

The wartime rules are there for a reason. The Eve-Uni does not want to offer WT's free lunches.

This message is not an instruction, just a recommendation.

"Do what we say or we will shoot you ourselves". Great! No, that isn't the Elite/Freelancer tradition of space trading games.

I like wargames but if I wanted to join the army I'd do in real life.

Dear lord, then join another corp ffs. Noone forces you to be in that corporation, don't like it? Quit and find another. Don't want to station spin. Undock, clone jump away, etc.

I guess that's why they say that EvE isn't for everyone, it doesn't force feed you stuff like some other MMO's, you have to take the initiative in your own hands and do the stuff yourself.

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Ala Cartman's amusement park from South Park. Nobody is allowed in, so naturally everyone wants in that much more.

DF is a special park since most mmos are mostly pve oriented. Very few like shadowbane, ww2ol, original uo and perhaps eve ever had hardcore pvp. Now after many years we have one more aka darkfall.

I have followed df since 2002 so it has been quite many years of "waiting". Luckily theres more in the horizon aka mortal online so things are going to look better in future for pvpers.

Darkfall has also many other things that I like in mmos but are never there like skill based system, fps style combat, looting, ffa, ships, player cities, sieges, friendly fire, cheap replaceable equipment, no teleportation but instead plenty of fast mounts and any many other smaller things. Darkfall devs know how to tingle my credit card.

[Scott_WAR]

Oh Darkfall definately interests me. Since I have about 5 MMO boxes sitting on my shelf, but not on my hard drive, I have decided to give any MMO at least 6 months before I decide to try it or not. That way people have plenty of time to find the flaws, and I can see if they are fatal to them game or not.
 
 A story form my guilds forums from a Darkfall player------- He was killed by a group of two players. He went back to try and fight them without them surprising him, and got killed again. He returned once more with the intent to surprise them. He cam upon them fighting someone else. One of the enemy players got off of his mount to fight someone. When he got a little distance away from the mount, my guildmate sprinted to it, jumped on it and rode off the proud new owner of a mount.
 
 Things like this spark my interest.

[Perturabo]

That Darkfall sounds interesting. Does anyone know what are its system requirements? I can't find them on its page.

Does anyone know an MMORPG where one doesn't have to grind and farm and can't become a level 300 super warrior with 5000 HP that would work on a 5 years old computer?
I mean something where decent characters are easy to make and expandable?

[Zakhal]

Oh Darkfall definately interests me. Since I have about 5 MMO boxes sitting on my shelf, but not on my hard drive, I have decided to give any MMO at least 6 months before I decide to try it or not. That way people have plenty of time to find the flaws, and I can see if they are fatal to them game or not.

On my shelf is age of conan, tabula rasa, hellgate, lotro, lotro morian, 4 boxes of guild wars and ww2ol. I also had two boxes of uo but i threw them both away. I definetly vowed myself to wait until few months after before buying new mmos and it has worked beuautifully i.e with warhammer - my friends were all exited asking me to join but after month they all quit it.

But with df I have become almost hyped which is very rare nowadays (only other game witp:ae). There are so many small details I like about it like the fact that there are no overhead floating nametags so you can actually hide in the game! Behind a rock or a tree.

Or the fact that you cant directly see how good another character is since there are no levels that you can see! You can only size up opponent based on your knowledge of the person (his name) and the gear he is wearing and the way he is acting.

Its not perfect i.e I would like animations for fishing and cooking among many other things like overhead/area chat (I dont like chat channels in mmo), but since the core game is good Im sure things like animations can be improved later.

One summary of the game:

The game is fun, nobody in the game has done everything. The content is far from maxed out. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean the game is awful.

There are problems, and I've been the first to point some of them out, but the core of the game is good.

The game will be around until there's something comparable offered. Mortal is months away at a minimum.

People still want:

1. PvP
2. Sandbox
3. boats
4. non-instanced
5. city building
6. 3-D
7. large world
8. some 1st person elements in combat

There's some games out that offer a little, but many people would rather support this game through the trials because in the end what the developers want to create is the same thing we want to play.

Im not sure how solo friendly the game is - it most likely is not i.e most of the mobs in the game are not soloable even. Pve friendly its not! So it might not suit everyones taste. But its a niche geared for me and thats better than any mainstream vanilla mmo that tries to please everyone and noone.

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

That Darkfall sounds interesting. Does anyone know what are its system requirements? I can't find them on its page.

Does anyone know an MMORPG where one doesn't have to grind and farm and can't become a level 300 super warrior with 5000 HP that would work on a 5 years old computer?
I mean something where decent characters are easy to make and expandable?

Equipment is cheap and replaceable and you can fight naked even. You can buy mounts too almost instantly, they are not level xx trophy items but somthing available for everyone like in original UO.

As for skills you you need to train them (i.e sparr with friends or kill mobs/do quests/dungeons) and you can do it simply by grinding or playing the game. However som say that one of DF's features for new players is they have a chance kill an enemy that's been in game longer than them. So you dont have to grind GM skills just to have a chance in pvp.

As for sys req I dont know. I wouldnt say sure for 5 yo pc.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: String
I guess that's why they say that EvE isn't for everyone, it doesn't force feed you stuff like some other MMO's, you have to take the initiative in your own hands and do the stuff yourself.

This is why I don't like playing with other Eve players - because they are all elitist prigs.

I play MUSHes all the time, on a MUSH it is all about initiative. Nobody will entertain you, you have to do it yourself.

When I was playing Eve I solo'd for a good three months making money before I got bored. Making money in Eve is essentially juggling a spreadsheet after all.

So less of "Well, its your fault because you aren't good enough". Maybe (shock) it isn't anything to do with me being a 'carebear'.

I don't see how not liking the inability to solo is anything about being 'spoon fed'. If I could use the exploration system on my own I would. Now thats independence, no spoon feeding there.

Unfortunately that needs groups too.

Maybe it isn't about me needing to be 'spoon fed' my entertainment. (If you thought before parrotting that bit of Eve forum 'wisdom' maybe you'd realise how ridiculous that is, given we're on a forum for grognardy war games. Does WITP 'spoon feed' me adequately in a way Eve doesn't, do you think?). Maybe I just think the game is boring and crap and have good reasons for thinking so? I appreciate that telling that to a MMO devotee is akin to telling the Pope he's mistaken and there is no god, but there it is.

I only copy/pasted that stuff to show that you were mistaken about Eve University.

[Tactics]

Stay away from Dark Fall. It's a sandbox MMO, but they forgot the sand. Here is the gameplay, in a nutshell.

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: Tactics

Stay away from Dark Fall. It's a sandbox MMO, but they forgot the sand. Here is the gameplay, in a nutshell.

The fact that the game has collision detection makes it possible. Also:

This doesn't quite sums up the PVE tactic in DF, it just shows how to zerg vs 1 only mob.
If you are a group of lets say 3, it will be more interesting. especially if you are fighting more than just 1 mob.

UUUmmm if you zergged any game's mobbed and blocked them in and bashed their head in it would work like that. Not sure why everyone rags on df pve. I enjoy it far more then AoC pve, and even WoW and War PvE. Hell fighting goblins in more fun and challenging then most of the PQ in war.

Not that pve could not use improvement but this a PvP game and it has barely launched yet. There are better mmos for pve if thats what you like.

Those wanting to know more check these old walkthrough videos with pve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTk5211H-Hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgN3VJ3s ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88s-MR3Q ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5IZVwea5PU

Here is a fishing and cooking video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAoW1OLO ... re=related

PvP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn-bloV4QR4&fmt=22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=737Irr0Fung



Here is the geopolitical situation in DF including world map:

The map is begging to flesh out and during the server outage last night I took the time to really look at who's where and marry it up with the tidbits of alliance styled information I've seen on these forums.

http://www.afraidyet.net/forums/misc...e=Darkfall_Map
(turn off all the spawns leaving only cities and hamlets enabled)

The North West island (i.e. Deceit) has two guilds with strong showing in Darfkall, Harm and LoD. I am not sure if they are allied or at war but given the guilds in question I wont be suprised to see tension there in the future (ego kills alliances faster then anything). Based on the recruiting I see in General, it sure looks like Harm is bulking up for long term viability in the game. Finally it's worth noting that CoS is a monster sized guild in Darkfall and their close proximity to Deceit makes them a likely ally to one of the guilds located there.

The North East island (i.e. Hawaii) has the, quite large, Order of the Phoenix with there 150+ members from week one. No intel on alliance or war going on Hawaii but the recent forum drama about the nut-cuppage here says not everything is roses. Consolidations are likely coming.

The South East island (i.e. Australia) has a pretty unusual alignment with a long term competitive european guild (SuN) in close proximity to Bood of AC Darktide fame sharing the same island as LoTD's chapter here in Darkfall (CoCK?). SuN and Blood have an absolutely cordial alliance, wonder what that means for LoTD? None of these guilds would be easy targets in my eyes.

The South West island (i.e. BFE) has a mish mosh of smaller guilds with lower epeen values but with the Vindicators on the nearby penisula I wouldnt be suprised to see them expand into this territory in the future. I'm certain any guild that conquers BFE will have to work out some deal with Vindi as their the closest 800lb gorilla.

Finally, the main continent has a number of interesting challenges shaping up
1) On the east coast you have The Wessex guys who have seen a number of road blocks to their early expansionist dreams but with Goons so close its not likely they will be able to push to the south-middle of the map. Weaker targets definitly appear to be placed on the rim of the main island and I'd look for their expansions in those directions.

2) The west coast definitly appears to be the crafter zone with a number of large number of 'nice' guilds populating the area. These guys might not be expansionists but I bet you their materials and funding will be the backing of some expansionists ambitions.

3) Finally the middle of the map is shaping up to be a cluster fuck. In about 5 minutes riding distance you have
- Murder Herd (large pop)
- Goons (large or soon to be large pop)
- Sov
- Image
- Homeless (this name might be true sooner then they think!)
- Finally you have the Merc's hanging out int he center of the map building up their membership, capabilities, and apparantly working an alliance with SoV which makes sense since so many of their key members are old DT'rs.

One thing is for sure this game, like EVE, is going to build up into some MASSIVE wars and I really hope the server supports it.

[String]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana



I don't see how not liking the inability to solo is anything about being 'spoon fed'. If I could use the exploration system on my own I would. Now thats independence, no spoon feeding there.

Unfortunately that needs groups too.

What prevents you from scanning and exploring on your own? We are only elitist pigs to people who whine about stuff that we know is actually working quite fine. Such as saying that it's impossible to solo anything in EvE. It's a bit stupid to go all solo in an MMORPG and defeats the purpose, imo (but that doesn't matter does it), but if you wish to do it you can.

With enough effor the only thing you can't do solo is alliance level politics and pvp. Solo pvp is quite possible, although targets can be hard to find at times. Then again, if you know where to look, you find no lack of solo targets.

Why I am annoyed is that I know from personal experience that soloing is quite possible in EvE. It's boring, but quite possible. So you see, although annoying, elitist, and rude, the "eve forum wisdom" has a grain of truth in it.

[Lützow]

I have to agree with String here. Eve got quite some solo content, albeit it's not very exciting on the long run. Take a mission, fit your BC or BS accordingly, kill stuff, come back with a salvage ship, loot, sell - rinse and repeat. Off course, one could explore as well or hunt down other players, but this gives less profit. However, joining a guild may alleviate financial risks, especially when you're considering 0.0 space, but doesn't change your gaming experience though. After all Eve is an economic simulation for crafting and pvp, rather than your typical MMO. Very well made, with georgous graphics but not really adapted for achievemenet style players or socializers.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Very well made, with georgous graphics but not really adapted for achievemenet style players or socializers.

I'd say that high level alliance play is exactly for that.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Thanks for the heads up on that. Finally got around to trying EVE in the last couple of weeks and have just signed on. The game farts on all the elves and pixies stuff from a great height; 'Elite' (with 'thinking' rather than 'twitch' combat, which is cool as I suck at twitching) in a universe with 250,000 or so real people, and a thinking person's game to boot (if you want it to be). I'll be playing for a long while I think [:)]

Well... four months or so as it turned out, although that is longer than I've ever played any other MMO. It just turned out to be an excellent game that demanded more time than I have, and that most people have, I suspect. There is solo content that you can dip into (within reason - no 10 minute missions here), but it's pretty pointless playing EVE solo when much more fun can be had with X3:TC or Evochron Legends, both of which can he bought for the cost of one month's EVE subscription. I can understand why those who get into EVE really get into it, though.. I never could with EQ or WoW.

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Very well made, with georgous graphics but not really adapted for achievemenet style players or socializers.

I'd say that high level alliance play is exactly for that.

The only achievement in EvE lays in the skill system and for gaining SP you merely have to maintain an active account. You can't influence this process by your playtime and from a certain level of wealth, money hunting becomes pointless, unless you plan to blow up your own stuff by participating in pvp. That is the weak point about EvE's system, even some people may embrace it.

Regarding EQ I was part of a highend raiding guild for many years. We were competing with likeminded organizations over progression and every item we looted from raids, contributed to our own character development and overall strength of the guild. Unlike EvE you got rewarded for dedication, efforts and time you put into the game. That is achievement style from my point of view. In addition you could meet other toons face-to-face, something CCP planned for the future but yet is impossible in EvE.

I'm not saying EvE would be a bad game, actually I enjoyed it for about six months or so, but after this time it became stale. Resubscribed with every new expansion but never could get in anymore.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Very well made, with georgous graphics but not really adapted for achievemenet style players or socializers.

I'd say that high level alliance play is exactly for that.

The only achievement in EvE lays in the skill system and for gaining SP you merely have to maintain an active account. You can't influence this process by your playtime and from a certain level of wealth, money hunting becomes pointless, unless you plan to blow up your own stuff by participating in pvp. That is the weak point about EvE's system, even some people may embrace it.

Regarding EQ I was part of a highend raiding guild for many years. We were competing with likeminded organizations over progression and every item we looted from raids, contributed to our own character development and overall strength of the guild. Unlike EvE you got rewarded for dedication, efforts and time you put into the game. That is achievement style from my point of view. In addition you could meet other toons face-to-face, something CCP planned for the future but yet is impossible in EvE.

I'm not saying EvE would be a bad game, actually I enjoyed it for about six months or so, but after this time it became stale. Resubscribed with every new expansion but never could get in anymore.

Ah Okay I see where you are coming from. Yes, skillpoints can only be affected so far.

But.

Skillpoints aren't everything. There's skillpoints and then there's skill. No amount of skillpoints will help you if you don't know what to do with them, eBay'ed characters prove that every day in EvE.

My point was that EvE rewards not only in skillpoints and isk, but also in goals you set yourselves. Such as becoming a highlevel alliance executive and controlling a 0.0 region or two, becoming the highest SP character ( one player passed 100m sp not long time ago), being the first plyaer to visit all EvE system (was done a only few months ago, but 2500 new systems got added after that), becoming famous for some other reason (Chribba and his Veldnaught or Innominate Nightmare and his noob adventures in 0.0), being the best at something (such as scamming and the Guiding Hand Social Club corporation) etc.

That's the beauty of the game, you can make your own goals and if you're creative enough you can do stuff that noone else has done before.

PS.

Reason #24 why EvE is not for everybody

[NefariousKoel]

I'm back playing LOTRO and enjoying myself.

I'll probably give Star Trek Online a go when it comes out, if it's primarily focused on ship combat as it seems to be. 


I long ago stopped watching TV and turned the Satellite off. MMO'ing has taken it's place, and good riddance. [;)]

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Equipment is cheap and replaceable and you can fight naked even. You can buy mounts too almost instantly, they are not level xx trophy items but somthing available for everyone like in original UO.

As for skills you you need to train them (i.e sparr with friends or kill mobs/do quests/dungeons) and you can do it simply by grinding or playing the game. However som say that one of DF's features for new players is they have a chance kill an enemy that's been in game longer than them. So you dont have to grind GM skills just to have a chance in pvp.

As for sys req I dont know. I wouldnt say sure for 5 yo pc.

Sounds interesting, but somehow I didn't find the videos appealing - maybe because I don't like 3D RPGs.

Is there any way to play orginal OU that you mentioned? Was it similar to DF?

ORIGINAL: Tactics

Stay away from Dark Fall. It's a sandbox MMO, but they forgot the sand. Here is the gameplay, in a nutshell.

I don't see anything in this video due to low quality. What is it supposed show?

[vonRocko]

Please excuse my naivete, buy what is a "sandbox" game?[&:]

[TheBlackhorse]

Dead Frontier is THE best MMO out there, imo....

Zombies and Role Playing..it doesn't get much better than that!

http://www.deadfrontier.com/