Always goes down with the ship???

thantis · Post by **thantis** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:30 pm

I have noticed an almost lemming-like tendency for my captains (and admirals) to go down with the ship when the flagship gets sunk.

I can understand if a ships gets blown apart in the middle of a battle, but I've had captains go down with the ship far away from the battle - i.e. ship sinks on the way to port for repairs.

Anybody else notice this?

rhohltjr · Post by **rhohltjr** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:38 pm

Originally posted by thantis
I have noticed an almost lemming-like tendency for my captains (and admirals) to go down with the ship when the flagship gets sunk.

I can understand if a ships gets blown apart in the middle of a battle, but I've had captains go down with the ship far away from the battle - i.e. ship sinks on the way to port for repairs.

Anybody else notice this?

Yes. You would think that some of the captains would choose to live and fight another day. I have had a few ships sink in port due to my getting them the swiss cheese treatment.

I haven't noticed captains going down with the ship in harbor - yet. Give me some more play time though...

Scouters · Post by **Scouters** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:52 pm

I think the rule is that when a ship sinks there is a 50% chance the captain will go down with it. This reflects a coin toss that is conducted by the other officers to determine the captain's fate. "Heads" means they toss him a lifeboat for subsequent court-martial. "Tails" means they tie him to the ship's wheel and wave goodbye.

-Scouters

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:00 pm

Originally posted by Scouters
I think the rule is that when a ship sinks there is a 50% chance the captain will go down with it. This reflects a coin toss that is conducted by the other officers to determine the captain's fate. "Heads" means they toss him a lifeboat for subsequent court-martial. "Tails" means they tie him to the ship's wheel and wave goodbye.

-Scouters

Do you think we can assume it will be the same thing for the CEOs of bankrupt companies

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:03 pm

UV is probably the first game where the "scuttle" function actually has some use, as you can save a good captain (and Admiral i assume if it's the flagship) by choosing this option vs. taking your 50/50 chance by allowing the ship to founder on it's own

thantis · Post by **thantis** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:10 pm

I never thought of that. Of course the one admiral I would want to save (Ching Chong China Lee) went down fighting on the South Dakota at Shortlands.......

Ron Saueracker · Post by **Ron Saueracker** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:17 pm

If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader.

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:13 pm

Originally posted by Scouters
I think the rule is that when a ship sinks there is a 50% chance the captain will go down with it. This reflects a coin toss that is conducted by the other officers to determine the captain's fate. "Heads" means they toss him a lifeboat for subsequent court-martial. "Tails" means they tie him to the ship's wheel and wave goodbye.

-Scouters

I think it would be an even higher ratio for IJN skippers/TF Commanders to go down with the ship. Look at the Battle of Midway. At least 2 ship Captains and 1 RAdm (Yamaguchi) went down with the ship.

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:18 pm

"If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader."

If I read this correctly, are you saying that if you scuttle a ship, you PREVENT the loss of VPs gain to the opponent AND you spare the command and crew?

I have not tried the scuttle routine.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:20 pm

Originally posted by Wilhammer
"If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader."

If I read this correctly, are you saying that if you scuttle a ship, you PREVENT the loss of VPs gain to the opponent AND you spare the command and crew?

I have not tried the scuttle routine.

No, you spare the command & crew so your VP loss is only 90% of the ship value ...

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:23 pm

So if the ship sinks due to scuttling, the opponent gets but 90% of the VPs and you save the crew and commanders?

What if it carries passengers, do they get saved?

If there are no friendly shipsin a hex, or you are not in port, do you still benefit from scuttling?

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:29 pm

Originally posted by Wilhammer
So if the ship sinks due to scuttling, the opponent gets but 90% of the VPs and you save the crew and commanders?

What if it carries passengers, do they get saved?

If there are no friendly shipsin a hex, or you are not in port, do you still benefit from scuttling?

Yep, you can scuttle a ship everywhere with the same benefits. AFAIK, the ship's load is lost ...

Scouters · Post by **Scouters** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:33 pm

Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
I think it would be an even higher ratio for IJN skippers/TF Commanders to go down with the ship. Look at the Battle of Midway. At least 2 ship Captains and 1 RAdm (Yamaguchi) went down with the ship.

This is because IJN high command issued special coins that had "You Lose" on one side and "Try Again" on the other. None the less, this was still a great improvement over the draconian "Magic Eight Ball" policy of the 1930's.

-Scouters

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:33 pm

Originally posted by Wilhammer
"If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader."

If I read this correctly, are you saying that if you scuttle a ship, you PREVENT the loss of VPs gain to the opponent AND you spare the command and crew?

I have not tried the scuttle routine.

From page 116 of the manual:

20. Victory Conditions:
"...If a ship is scuttled, it will score 10% less than its standard VP's..."

Originally posted by Spooky
AFAIK, the ship's load is lost ...

unless it a "...cargo plane of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong..."

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:35 pm

Now for the vent.

I can understand how you save the crew by scuttling the ship, it makes sense, to a point.

1. Scuttling with neighbors. Friendly ships pick up your floating friends.

2. Scuttling without neighbors. Crew, in ordely fashion, gets on lifeboats/rafts, and sends out a distress message.

3. Capture? Scuttling without neighbors beyone reach of friends. Your gonna die or get captured.

The 90% VP rule for scuttling ships.

A ship sunk is a ship sunk. I say, give them 100% of the value.

The most famous of all scuttlings, the Graf Spee, was certainly worth 100% of the VP.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:42 pm

Originally posted by Wilhammer
Now for the vent.

I can understand how you save the crew by scuttling the ship, it makes sense, to a point.

1. Scuttling with neighbors. Friendly ships pick up your floating friends.

2. Scuttling without neighbors. Crew, in ordely fashion, gets on lifeboats/rafts, and sends out a distress message.

3. Capture? Scuttling without neighbors beyone reach of friends. Your gonna die or get captured.

The 90% VP rule for scuttling ships.

A ship sunk is a ship sunk. I say, give them 100% of the value.

The most famous of all scuttlings, the Graf Spee, was certainly worth 100% of the VP.

The most famous !!! You are joking

The Hornet was also scuttled as were many other ships in the Pacific War !

An experienced crew is a valuable asset so it this 90% rule is quite logical !

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:43 pm

How can you tell which ship in a task force is the flagship?

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:49 pm

Originally posted by Coleman
How can you tell which ship in a task force is the flagship?

It's the one that rides lower in the water due to the extra personnel aboard from Flag Staff

Scouters · Post by **Scouters** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:52 pm

I think the discounted VP's reflect the probability that fewer crew casualties would have occurred and accounts for some type of preservation of morale since the ship did not directly go down in the face of the enemy.

There is some historical precedent for the latter case. On January 16, 1991 (the first official day of Operation Desert Storm), upon learning of the beginning of American aggression, Iraqi Navy Lt Cmdr Tariq Salimi led a group of patrol craft into the gulf and promptly scuttled all his ships. Soon after he was promoted to Commodore for "bold, decisive action which prevented the great fleet of Iraq from being desecrated by the precision guided munitions of the great Satan." Salimi was later given command of a combined frigate/destroyer group which he immediately set on fire.

-Scouters

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:59 pm

Originally posted by Scouters
I think the discounted VP's reflect the probability that fewer crew casualties would have occurred and accounts for some type of preservation of morale since the ship did not directly go down in the face of the enemy.

There is some historical precedent for the latter case. On January 16, 1991 (the first official day of Operation Desert Storm), upon learning of the beginning of American aggression, Iraqi Navy Lt Cmdr Tariq Salimi led a group of patrol craft into the gulf and promptly scuttled all his ships. Soon after he was promoted to Commodore for "bold, decisive action which prevented the great fleet of Iraq from being desecrated by the precision guided munitions of the great Satan." Salimi was later given command of a combined frigate/destroyer group which he immediately set on fire.

-Scouters

"TAKE THAT!!! YOU EVIL DOGS!!!!"

Call him hot tomale' Salimi

Always goes down with the ship???

Always goes down with the ship???

Re: Always goes down with the ship???

Glub glub glub

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Scuttle

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Flagship?

Re: Flagship?