Playing nice with Politics

[Mike Parker]

I am new to CoG having never played before. After reading the manual (Mmmm I read lots of it not every word I admit, more than skimming though) and going through the video tutorials I started a 1792 scenario as Sweden. Simple economy, and I made the settings so it would play a long time somethng like 23 years and highest glory? Sorry I don't remember I just wanted to be able to play as long as I wished to get a handle on things. But that setting shouldn't matter to my question.

Looking over things I thought the best opening move would be to work on getting Denmark to be a protectorate. So I built some infrastructure where I could (barracks and docks) some merchants, and sent my lone diplomat into Norway with Charm orders. Currently Denmark's attitude towards me is over 500 and to the UK its in the 60's everyone else is negative. Is there anything I can do to push Denmark towards asking for protectorate status? Or do I just have to wait for a random amount of time, or is the only way to have someone DOW Denmark? Its 1765 and I haven't fought any wars, not even a skirmish. I DOW'd Austria because of a treaty I had with England and Spain, but it expired as we couldn't reach each other. I am peacefully trading with merchants and slowly trying to build my infrastructure up.

I would like to go adventuring militarily, but I would like Denmark firmly on my court before I did much expansionism... so am I waiting in vain?

Thanks

[Franck]

I know you have posted this quite a while ago but here is the solution:
Charm+subsidies work wonder.

Keep pushing 20 money a turn into that country. you'll get it. But that's the only way to speed things up. Still, if the Danes still have an intact navy it might be worth it.

[TheOx]

That Danish navy is BIG! [:D]

[morganbj]

If Prussia gets too ambitious and declares war on Mecklenburg, you should see Denmark come your way.  Keep bribing and charming them.  Having the Danes on your side in a real game winner, from my experience.  Play on!
 

[Mike Parker]

Thanks guys,
 
I had been thinking about subsidies, but the Miser in me thought I could just do it with 'fast talking' diplomats!  The Danish Navy is huge and would be a tremendous boon for Sweden.  Combined with the already nice Swedish Navy it would make me the premiere naval power in the baltic, which goes a LONG way to its security.

[Mike Parker]

That was incredibly frustrating.
 
I got Denmark to +2500 attitude with me, and the RUSSIANS managed to protectorate them when they were at -300 or so!
 
With the lone Swedish Diplomat I spend no less than 6 years exclusively charming Denmark, and an average of $20 a turn for the last 2.5 years in support, and they get protectorated by Russia while still negative in attitude to them?
 
Am I missing something?  Is diplomacy this fickle?

[Joram]

Hi Mike, would need to know more details.  It's quite possible they caused a 'coup' in which case attitude doesn't matter.  I would check the event report first.  If you are certain they had no diplomat there, then it might help to post saves from both right before, and right after (put them in a .zip file). 

[Mike Parker]

I'll see which save files I have when I get home.
 
I cannot say there was not a Russian Diplomat there.  I don't think there was as I was watching over Denmark pretty closely, and considering a DOW'd Russia and attacked Denmark the next turn (well DOW then wait then attacked) there wasn't one in evidence when I attacked.
 
I wasn't thinking its a bug, much more I was wondering if I am making a mistake or missing something.  I see countries protectorizing all the time in the events log.  So I am concerned I am going about it wrong as in missing something important.
 
In essence all I did was put a force of 50K troops close to Denmark (it varied but was always over 40K), and put a diplomat on charm to raise their attitude and wait for them to beg me to run them?!

[ShaiHulud]

I could be completely wrong on this, but, for the 40k+ troops within 4 provinces, are sea zones considered as provinces? If not, well.....

[Mike Parker]

I hadn't considered that.  I kept my troops in Malmo, which has a crossing arrow to Zealand so I just assumed that was enough to count.  But perhaps I needed to position troops somewhere on the mainland?

[Anthropoid]

Why seek protectorates when you can just conquer them!? [:D]

[Mike Parker]

Well for me I know if I protectorate them I get their navy.  I am not sure what happens if I DOW, take Zealand then protectorate them.  I suppose I should fire up a new game and just try it and see!

[Russian Guard]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Why seek protectorates when you can just conquer them!? [:D]

Protectorate troops don't count against your Max Mobilization, and you only pay their supply, not their upkeep.

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Why seek protectorates when you can just conquer them!? [:D]

biggest reason, is depending on the size of your nation, is waste, over 30 provinces and waste starts to kick in (2% per province over 30, not counting Protectorates or Provinces with Level 5 court or above)

10% to 14% will pretty much cripple you (you start starveing)

and since Textiles are importent for more things then just building courts, it is nice to use some of them for other things

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

Well for me I know if I protectorate them I get their navy.  I am not sure what happens if I DOW, take Zealand then protectorate them.  I suppose I should fire up a new game and just try it and see!

If you DOW them you would have to hold off Russia in Finland while Conquering all of Denmark. Is it 2 provinces or 3? I believe its Zealand, Jutland and Holstein but might be mistaken.

Then you can make them a protectorate and their fleet becomes yours to control.

I know this through conquering Portugal in my current Path of Napoleon game and then making them a protectorate and finding their fleet under my control, patrolling in the Black Sea for some reason.

[:D]

[Anthropoid]

Ahhh, so that is why. Cool info. So I guess deciding what to conquer, where to build more courts and what to get as a protectorate is a vital part of the overall grand strategy.

[Mike Parker]

Yep I took all of the Danish provinces (the three you mentioned plus Norway and Trondhei(sp?)) and got the navy, defended myself in finland (lost Karelia) but barely Russia has alot of boots on the ground.
 
Got the navy, I believe they start with close to 40 ships, I got 11 of them, 3 frigates 2 merchantes 6 ships of the line.  They were also at war with the UK.
 
Its much better to just go charm mecklenburg and get the Danish from the get go, I did that in a new game.  Now if I can just keep Austria and Russia ahead of me in Glory for awhile I'll be okay.