Polish War Problems/"Bug"...

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barbarossa2
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

Polish War Problems/"Bug"...

Post by barbarossa2 »

I was playing a 1792 hotseat scenario game with a friend. I was Prussia and he was Austria.

In late 1793 (I believe), I declared war on Poland and about two months later, computer controlled Sweden told me to back down or else. I refused and went on with my campaign. One Polish provence after another fell to me. I wasn't even involved on Sweden's mainland...just in Poland south and east of the Baltic. But things weren't moving quickly enough for me, so I invited Austria to join in.

In July of 1794 (I believe), Austria declared war on Poland (right click on Poland--Declare war on Sweden) to support my operations. He began sieging the south eastern Polish provences, one after another and made some progress.

In July of 1795 before the "simultaneous" turn execution phase, the situation was this...

(post continued below)

Image
Attachments
Austriaat..hPoland.jpg
Austriaat..hPoland.jpg (244.93 KiB) Viewed 178 times
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.
barbarossa2
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by barbarossa2 »

(continued from above)
...however, immediately after the screenshot above and during the "simultaneous" execution phase, the Austrian player was told that his war with Sweden had lapsed. He was no longer allowed to enter Polish territory.

Screen shot provided below.

Why would the Austrian's war with Sweden lapse? In this situation, he did not have units on Swedish soil, but he was actively reducing Polish defenses throughout the year just as I was.

I would say this is a case where the programming has a "hole" in it which can be easily repaired. :)

As it was, the war ended, but Austria was allowed to declare war again (taking on all of the negative glory associated with that move).

I have the save files which may help this problem be tracked down and repaired for the first patch.

Image
Attachments
AustroSwe..sLapsed.jpg
AustroSwe..sLapsed.jpg (189.64 KiB) Viewed 178 times
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.
barbarossa2
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by barbarossa2 »

Additionally, and just as great of a problem (to me)...

In a previous 1792 game as Prussia, I declared war on Poland. No one took them as a protectorate. After conqering about half of the country (including Warsaw) and destroying most of their army, Poland surrendered to me. I suddenly controlled the WHOLE country without having to reduce every single fortress in every single provence.

However, in THIS 1792 game mentioned above, Prussia declared war on Poland and Sweden became its protector. I expected that Austria and I (Prussia) need only inflict enough punishment on Poland to get it to drop out of the war and surrender to me. However, I found myself in a war of total extermination, where they would NOT surrender. Period. Austria (after re-declaring war) and Prussia were forced to take every single provence which belonged to Poland to wipe them out and absorb them into our crowns. To be honest with you, I expected them to surrender to me (having taken their capitol and inflicted the most damage) and then I would let the Austrian player keep a few southern regions and cede another 2 or 3 to him per the agreement we made so he would come to my aide after Sweden declared war on me.

I do not know why being a protectorate of some country will cause a nation the size of Poland to fight to the death. I think the code needs reworking here. It seems that the provences of Poland became sort of "provences" of Sweden and were conquered one at a time. IMHO, this needs to be changed. Or, perhaps, ideally, a special section of code would be written for the special case of Poland/Larger countries (with "historical" options perhaps for Poland).
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.
barbarossa2
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by barbarossa2 »

Additionally, shortly thereafter, Sweden surrendered to Austria and Prussia (we hadn't invaded their "mainland" yet, but they had been involved in a long and surely difficult war with Russia).

When I wanted to dictate the terms of the peace treaty (with roughly 4800 points at my disposal), I could not click on any provences to have them cede to me. I was allowed to add the "Cede Provence" term to the treaty, but when the little window came up with options (shaded provences), no matter where I clicked or what I did, it would not accept/enter a provence.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.
barbarossa2
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by barbarossa2 »

This thread is kind of also related to the whole Poland issue I bring up in "Protectorate Issues".
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.
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Mr. Z
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:33 pm

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by Mr. Z »

Why would the Austrian's war with Sweden lapse? In this situation, he did not have units on Swedish soil, but he was actively reducing Polish defenses throughout the year just as I was.
It looks like Poland is a protectorate of Sweden. (And otherwise you wouldn't have been able to declare war on Sweden by right-clicking on Poland.) It looks like Sweden still holds all of Poland. Were you actually doing any fighting or besieging? If so, what were the casualties?
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Mr. Z
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:33 pm

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by Mr. Z »

After conqering about half of the country (including Warsaw) and destroying most of their army, Poland surrendered to me.
They surrendered when you captured their capital, which I believe in 1792 is Warsaw. This is WAD.
However, in THIS 1792 game mentioned above, Prussia declared war on Poland and Sweden became its protector. I expected that Austria and I (Prussia) need only inflict enough punishment on Poland to get it to drop out of the war and surrender to me. However, I found myself in a war of total extermination, where they would NOT surrender. Period. Austria (after re-declaring war) and Prussia were forced to take every single provence which belonged to Poland to wipe them out and absorb them into our crowns.
Even when they are a protectorate, you still need to either capture the capital or get the protector (Sweden) to surrender, and then you could ask for provinces in a peace treaty.
To be honest with you, I expected them to surrender to me (having taken their capitol and inflicted the most damage)
If you really did capture the capital, then you would have gotten control of the Polish player, their capital province, plus any other provinces you'd captured. However, any remaining Swedish-controlled provinces would have then become Swedish-owned, i.e. conquered and directly controlled by Sweden. The dotted line should have disappeared, leaving a solid Swedish border only. But only after you captured the Polish capital (again, Warsaw, I think).
Or, perhaps, ideally, a special section of code would be written for the special case of Poland/Larger countries (with "historical" options perhaps for Poland).
Poland is a very large minor power, it's true, but I think it behaves appropriately--if it's a protectorate, its lands will stay in Swedish hands if at all possible.
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Mr. Z
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:33 pm

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by Mr. Z »

When I wanted to dictate the terms of the peace treaty (with roughly 4800 points at my disposal), I could not click on any provences to have them cede to me. I was allowed to add the "Cede Provence" term to the treaty, but when the little window came up with options (shaded provences), no matter where I clicked or what I did, it would not accept/enter a provence.
There are rules about which provinces you can ask for in a peace treaty. They can only be so far from your borders, etc.

If there is anything wrong with the province picker (and we're not sure that there is) then the patch should fix it.
barbarossa2
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by barbarossa2 »

Mr. Z, I have to say that the only real "bug" here was the lapse in the war between Austria and Sweden.  My only concern is that the lapse issue be addressed in the patch. I am not sure what the losses were, but Austria was moving from one provence to the other as quickly as possible, sieging the cities along the way. They must have had at least 70,000 men in tow. It is a situation which shouldn't lead to a lapse in the war. He wasn't allowed to select any Polish provences for entry and as I said, had to declare war on Sweden to get the ball rolling again.

Mr.Z said:
"If you really did capture the capital, then you would have gotten control of the Polish player, their capital province, plus any other provinces you'd captured. However, any remaining Swedish-controlled provinces would have then become Swedish-owned, i.e. conquered and directly controlled by Sweden. The dotted line should have disappeared, leaving a solid Swedish border only. But only after you captured the Polish capital (again, Warsaw, I think). "

Mr.Z, Yes, I Prussian forces had captured Warsaw. And by the time the screen shot was taken above. Which is why I didn't understand this either. I didn't get any message that Poland had surrendered to me. Which is what made it doubly confusing.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.
User avatar
Mr. Z
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:33 pm

RE: Polish War Problems...

Post by Mr. Z »

I am not sure what the losses were, but Austria was moving from one provence to the other as quickly as possible, sieging the cities along the way. They must have had at least 70,000 men in tow. It is a situation which shouldn't lead to a lapse in the war.
In fact the patch should address this, because it will implement different behavior for occupying provinces, i.e. you won't conquer them immediately, unless you happen to capture the capital. Instead, you will simply occupy them, without gaining possession. The rules for lapsed war require that no provinces be occupied, so this should take care of the situation you describe.
Mr.Z, Yes, I Prussian forces had captured Warsaw. And by the time the screen shot was taken above. Which is why I didn't understand this either. I didn't get any message that Poland had surrendered to me. Which is what made it doubly confusing
Oh, I see. Well, in the above game, I suspect the Polish capital moved (this can happen, and is technically WAD though we thought it couldn't happen anymore in the release version--we'll document whatever we put in the patch). Check your saved game--look for the Polish capital province. It's probably not in Warsaw anymore.
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