A Tragic WW2 Discovery...

[JudgeDredd]

Oh and just for future - to anyone else who thinks they've found a little historical nugget that should/could be shared in a wargaming community...for the love of God, do not post it in here if it contains anything that remotely looks like it might paint a bad light on the US! And this isn't aimed at the vast majority of the US members who view these threads...as usual, it's an elite few who bugger it up by twisting everything.
 
Barbarossa, I thank you for the post. I had no idea that happened and, if true, then yes...tragic.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Oh and just for future - to anyone else who thinks they've found a little historical nugget that should/could be shared in a wargaming community...for the love of God, do not post it in here if it contains anything that remotely looks like it might paint a bad light on the US! And this isn't aimed at the vast majority of the US members who view these threads...as usual, it's an elite few who bugger it up by twisting everything.

Barbarossa, I thank you for the post. I had no idea that happened and, if true, then yes...tragic.

The story is both true *and* old hat and this discussion really belongs in a history forum, not a gaming forum. Why ? Because it's not that hard to dig up historical data which puts one group of people or another in a bad light. Humans are humans, not saints, and if you start cherry-picking in the history of *any* ethnic group/country you're bound to find awfull things.

Don't get me started on how the British treated Sosabowski et al ... or how the Waterloo victory parade (a diorama of the battle in London) mysteriously left out all the German troops making it look like British soldiers alone defeated Napoleon.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[PunkReaper]

the Waterloo victory parade (a diorama of the battle in London) mysteriously left out all the German troops making it look like British soldiers alone defeated Napoleon.

Drat I thought we did..... next you will be telling me that we British didn't win WW2 by ourselves. I can see why this thread is getting controversial with you spreading incorrect tales about great British accomplishments....... [:-]

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe



The story is both true *and* old hat and this discussion really belongs in a history forum, not a gaming forum. Why ? Because it's not that hard to dig up historical data which puts one group of people or another in a bad light. Humans are humans, not saints, and if you start cherry-picking in the history of *any* ethnic group/country you're bound to find awfull things.

Don't get me started on how the British treated Sosabowski et al ... or how the Waterloo victory parade (a diorama of the battle in London) mysteriously left out all the German troops making it look like British soldiers alone defeated Napoleon.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

This sums it up for me, great post Eddy!

I'd be remiss without stating the fact of goverment sanctioned discrimination that goes on every day in the U.S. against white kids seeking jobs, education assistance or even a G.E.D. . The equal rights activists [8|]will state that those
special rights are just needed to make up for past injustices..... So let me get this straight, you discriminate against white kids now to make up for the discriminations of the past..... I'll borrow this from the first post.... "If it weren't tragic, it would be comical. "

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

the Waterloo victory parade (a diorama of the battle in London) mysteriously left out all the German troops making it look like British soldiers alone defeated Napoleon.

Drat I thought we did..... next you will be telling me that we British didn't win WW2 by ourselves. I can see why this thread is getting controversial with you spreading incorrect tales about great British accomplishments....... [:-]

<sigh> see what I mean ? You probably totally missed the main point of my argument which was that you can dig-up dirt about *every nation* if you go looking for it.

Just to show you what I mean :

At Waterloo there were about 28K British troops and around 64K "German" troops (48K Prussians, 16K Hannoverians, Rhinelanders, whatever)

Claiming the British won the battle of Waterloo is akin to claiming the Canadians won the battle for Normandy in WWII. Sure, they were there and played a big part, but come on ...

Sorry if this upsets some strong British beliefs, but facts are facts - if today there's one nation which can claim to have defeated Nappy, it's Germany.

Oh, and here's the background on the diorama thingie :

http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleoni ... ICTORY.htm

Want me to post some dirt on how the Brits treated Sosabowski ?

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[JudgeDredd]

Eddy
&nbsp;
That's my point...you can post as much historical dirt as you like about the Brits. It doesn't bother me one bit. I find it intriguing and if it's historically relevant, I think it's great that it's shared. We are talking history here. Some people just don't see that!
&nbsp;
And I doubt (seemingly being suggested) that Barbarossa actually went "looking" for dirt. If he did, shame on him...if he didn't, what exactly is the problem?

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


Missouri Rebel

You say you are upset about 'white guilt' as you put it. From that standpoint, what your take on the quote you are advertising in your signature:

We must act... against the Sioux, even to the extermination of men, WOMEN and CHILDREN.The more Indians we can kill this year, the less will have to be killed next year. They all have to be killed or be maintained as a species of paupers.- w.t. SHErMAN

Never mind how ironic it sounds that someone using a SS officer rank username is lecturing about genocide.

BTW where are you from SS Hauptsturmfuhrer ?

[BAL]

And I doubt (seemingly being suggested) that Barbarossa actually went "looking" for dirt. If he did, shame on him...if he didn't, what exactly is the problem?

&nbsp;
Maybe he was afraid of a lawsuit.&nbsp; [;)]

[PunkReaper]

Jd is correct History is History. Every nation has done terrible things in the past but it takes an enlightened nation to be able to look at its past admit its mistakes, say sorry and move on. Here in Liverpool we have exhibitions about the slave trade and how Liverpool's wealth was created on the back of this obnoxious trade. How does this make me feel. Guilty no..... educated about Liverpool's past.. yes. We should learn from the mistakes of the past and try not to repeat them in the future.... here endeth the lesson.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
That's my point...you can post as much historical dirt as you like about the Brits. It doesn't bother me one bit. I find it intriguing and if it's historically relevant, I think it's great that it's shared. We are talking history here. Some people just don't see that!

And I doubt (seemingly being suggested) that Barbarossa actually went "looking" for dirt. If he did, shame on him...if he didn't, what exactly is the problem?

To make it clear : I didn't think he went looking for dirt - I just cannot figure out why of all places this gets posted in a gaming forum. You know just as I do what reactions a post like that will trigger and none of it is game-related.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[PunkReaper]

Thought this was general discussion board or is it just limited to gaming issues?

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Even though African troops composed a majority of Free French units fighting to free France from Nazi rule, only whites were allowed in the Paris victory parade. This is today's BBC article about it...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7984436.stm

If it weren't tragic, it would be comical.

Not surprising at all...the world never was black and while...the world actually a huge field of gray. And this something actually very insignificant if compare it to say Russian massacre of polish people and offices before WW2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

I also reading about black tank regiment in US army during WW2 that wasn't given proper honours after the war for what they did until about late 70s or so...talk about "democratic" country of the world.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper
Thought this was general discussion board or is it just limited to gaming issues?

Good question - I thought it was along the lines of "general gaming related stuff" but I could be wrong.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, indeed this forum is for discussing general gaming topics and we try to stay away from controversial issues, especially current events. I'm in agreement that it's frankly easy to look at history and find something bad about pretty much everyone. The important thing is historical context and having the right overall framework of history to fit all the facts into. With that said, locking this up.