New Purchase Recommendation.

[stormbringer3]

I'm looking to buy a new game. My finalists are COGEE or Gary Grigsby's War Between the States. I only play against the AI and complexity is not a problem - Victoria is one of my all time favorites! I have and enjoyed AGEOD's American Civil War, but another Civil War game would not be a problem. I would appreciate any recommendations.
Thanks.

[Pford]

GGWBTS is the most fully successful strategic PC wargame I've ever owned. It does justice to the Civil War on many levels. And playing as the Union, the rebel AI will kick your butt until you invest some serious study.

I don't own COG:EE but confess to a prejudice against games that attempt to combine strategical and tactical elements- like the Total War series. On the other hand, the buzz on this forum seems pretty favorable.

[Erik Rutins]

Stormbringer3,

That's a really tough question. Are you eventually planning to get both? Honestly, in my opinion whichever one you get you'll be happy with, both are excellent games.

Regards,

- Erik

[jhdeerslayer]

I've played WBTS for some time against the AI and PBEM and can highly recommend it.  The new patch coming out appears to make an already great game even better.  I also own ACW, which is good no doubt, but for whatever reason I feel WBTS captures the feel of the Civil War better. 
 
I'm new to COGEE but can say this seems to be another winner.
 
COGEE is more complex (more to do and think about) than WBTS though you can adjust your complexity on what interests you with economy and tactical battles.
 
WBTS may seem simple in some ways but it requires serious strategic thought and not as simple as it may first appear.
 
You have a tough choice and just buy both.  [8D]

[stormbringer3]

Thanks for the replies! In answer to the question will I eventually get both, I'm not sure. When I buy a game, if it's a good one, I usually play it for many months before I move on.
Please keep the opinions coming. 

[morganbj]

I have both and think they're great, and for different reasons.
 
They approach the strategic issues quite differently.  I think COG requires quite a bit less study to play with the simple economy option, but I like the detail in GGWBtS.  So, I disagree a little with Erik about the complexity.  GGWBtS can not be played without a good deal of complexity, but COG CAN be played as more of a "beer and pretzles" game.

[Crimguy]

I don't want to nay-say WBTS because I do really like it. However, I decided some of the design decisions bother me. Particularly the 1 month turns. Since the turn lengths are so long, one can transport troops all over the map on every turn. So you can have, theoretically, a whole Corp fight a battle in Manassas in May, followed by a move into Kentucky in June, fight there in August, then move them all the way to New Orleans (via Philadelphia and the sea routes) for an eventual landing.

The leader initiative rule is very cool, and I do like the feel of the game. Just feels very much like a game and no way approximates reality.

For the civil war, I highly recommend AGEod's ACW, also available at Matrix. I've been wondering about COGEE but have been holding off because I didn't enjoy the tactical battles in FOF, which looks to have the same mechanics. Also, since I'm now running the game on a mac with VMWare, not having windowed mode creates some ui issues for me.

[gexmex]

+1 for Ageod's ACW

I'm new to COG and I really enjoy it so far, although I really stink at it, but I'm starting to get the hang of it methinks.  It's a really enjoyable way to rewrite history in a historical fashion, even though the results may not be accurate, historically speaking.. if that makes any sense.  Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

[stormbringer3]

Thanks for the imput. The posters that recommended AGEOD's ACW gave a great recommendation, but I put in my origional post, perhaps not clearly enough, that I already own that game and really liked it.
Thanks.

[gexmex]

[:'(] oops, you're quite right....i was just agreeing tho, not trying to convince you!!!

[Crimguy]

I was trying to get you to buy it again. They could always use the scratch . . .

[ubik]

CoG:EE for me all the time.

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

I'm looking to buy a new game. My finalists are COGEE or Gary Grigsby's War Between the States. I only play against the AI and complexity is not a problem - Victoria is one of my all time favorites!

You may prefer CoGEE for it's comprehensive economy part, but I'd recommend you to watch the according videos for both games before purchasing one.

All four titles, AACW, Vicci, WbtS and COGEE, distinguish in terms of gameplay and are not really comparable.

[madgamer2]

All you say about GGWBTS is true it does not feel like the Civil War. One last point is that for me the initiative rule can ruin the war especially for the North. Against the South AI I have seen the northn sit for months with little movement. As the Yank you can start with a large amount of troops across from Padhah and an oth large group across from the KY state capitol and if you get real poor die rolls you will have a hard time taking KY. To many times the state of KY ended up with the South.

I to did not like the tactical battles as part of a game that was supposed to a grand strategic level affair. CoGEE extends this system in CoG and FoF to its full potential and like AACW it just is to much work and not enough play for me.

I like AACW but can play for only a few short hours as that map gives me headaches
and blurred vision. The kind of tactical and strategic things you can do just don't seem to reflect the civil war but then this is just one mans opinion.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

I advise you purchase nether one.....I could go into a long list of reasons but its strange each of the games you mention and AACW are games I love but can't play well for various reasons having to do with playing them is more like work than play and are not fun....I have to have fun/

Madgamer

[stormbringer3]

After researching both titles I feel that I'd be happy with either one. So, one last question.
Since I only play vs. the AI, to those who are familiar with both titles, are both AI's equally challenging or does one have an edge?
Thanks.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: madgamer

I advise you purchase nether one.....I could go into a long list of reasons but its strange each of the games you mention and AACW are games I love but can't play well for various reasons having to do with playing them is more like work than play and are not fun....I have to have fun/

Madgamer

You can play the intstant battles and win against the AI quite handily. Indeed, PBEM is only with the instant battles. A dislike of the tactical battles should not be a deal breakers, because they, like the advanced economy option in COGEE are optional to game play.