Mixed Order

[ptan54]

I used to like this upgrade since it gives my line infantry a chance to deal greater total damage even though fire is reduced. But my infantry often gets disordered after the charge, which makes them ripe targets for enemy cavalry. I've been on the wrong end of such charges a few times and I'm starting to think this is not such a great upgrade after all. Maybe stick to double line and play defensively in detailed combat and not move a lot since double line infantry move slowly anyway.

What do you guys think?

I've also never understood why line formation is great for charging. From the books I read, column seems to be the best melee formation, line is only for fire. Anyone know why the game was set up like this?

[ShaiHulud]

First, Order Mixte is a combination of units in both line and column. It's not represented visually, but, that's what it is.

With CoG, I used to use it. In CoG:EE, I don't bother because, before one can attack, it requires the enemy unit to be disordered. I've blasted units to 0 and, still, they did not go to disordered. It just happens so rarely that it's not worth the investment of training points and the loss of 25% damage.

[terje439]

I hated that upgrade in CoG; and have not aqquired it in CoG:EE, just as OP I find that I end up disordered in the wrong place with it.

[Hard Sarge]

it is a timing tactic, when it is needed, it is great, but it can hurt you, so when I think it could hurt me, I don't fire into my forward flank (also, i don't think it comes up as much as it did before)

[morganbj]

Drats.  I thought this thread was about mixing tuna salad with a cheesburger.  [:D]

[ant1815]

Nobody seems to have addressed this yet so I'll have a bash

ORIGINAL: ptan54
I've also never understood why line formation is great for charging. From the books I read, column seems to be the best melee formation, line is only for fire. Anyone know why the game was set up like this?

Either the books you've been reading are mistaken or you've taken the examples out of context. 'Best' is also a very subjective word.

All things being equal then line is the preferred and more effective formation for melee. The reason that column seems to have often been more favoured by the French are two fold.

Firstly, during the revolutionary wars the large hastily raised conscription armies that were fielded by the French often simply didn't have sufficient training or tactical skill to be able to manoeuvre and fight effectively in line, and so other tactics were, by necessity, used. The column being principal in this. The limitations of the columns were well understood and this prompted the development of tactics to try and mitigate the disadvantages, such as the aforementioned mixed order and also a heavy skirmish line in order to disrupt enemy formations before the column made contact.

Secondly, if you have to attack - and timing is often crucial in Napoleonic battles - then it's often better to do it swiftly with an ordered and cohesive column than slowly with a disorganised and incohesive line, factors such as terrain need to be taken in to account.

Because of this the French acquired a bit of a 'reputation' for attacking in column, reinforced by quotes (often misunderstood) such as Wellington's "they came on in the same old fashion and we saw them off in the same old fashion" It's a bit of a myth though.

The French army under Napoleon was very tactically astute and very much aware that line was superior and, when conditions were favourable, usually deployed in to line before contacting the enemy. However, aggression and speed of manoeuvre are also very important tools and if this was achieved better by column, then column was used.

[Mus]

It was preferred for Infantry to go from column into line just before going into a charge.  The reason why the French later started attacking in column was because of the reduced quality of their infantry as the war went on.

I dont find Mixed Order to be a problem when I am playing French.  Like HS said, its easy to pick when you are going to use it or not and disordering by fire does feel less common than it used to be.  Also it gives bonuses for changing formation IIRC.  If Im not playing France, the only country that starts with the upgrade, I spend points for the skirmishing upgrades and Divisional Artillery instead.

IMO Divisional Artillery is the best upgrade in the game next to the skirmisher upgrades.

[ptan54]

What if COGEE reverts to the old system - enemy does not have to be disordered before you fire for you to be able to follow up fire with charge? Would you get mixed order in that case?

ORIGINAL: ShaiHulud

First, Order Mixte is a combination of units in both line and column. It's not represented visually, but, that's what it is.

With CoG, I used to use it. In CoG:EE, I don't bother because, before one can attack, it requires the enemy unit to be disordered. I've blasted units to 0 and, still, they did not go to disordered. It just happens so rarely that it's not worth the investment of training points and the loss of 25% damage.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: ptan54

What if COGEE reverts to the old system - enemy does not have to be disordered before you fire for you to be able to follow up fire with charge? Would you get mixed order in that case?

I dont believe thats the case. In COG I think it was just easier to disorder an enemy by fire combat. IIRC they still had to be disordered in COG for mixed order to result in a charge after a fire attack.

[ptan54]

You are correct, I see a lot of "follow up with a charge" in COG.

Seems the reduction in fire just ain't worth it then. Just bring a lot of cavalry in reserve to do the charging.

[Hard Sarge]

on another side, we changed how the game worked with trying to change formation (before, if you failed a formation change, you went disordered, and the AI would like to get very close, before changing, and alot of times would go disordered on it's own)

with the change of the Unit not going disordered on a failed change attempt, unless in a threaten area, may be part of the reason, it is not happening as much as before