Murmansk!

[Mark_BookGuy]

Originally posted by Stefdragon
I would tend to think that the '44 campaign is the only scenario
in which you would be able to take Helsinki with any certainty.

As to what happened once you took it, the classic phrase is:
"Kill the men, rape the women, and make soup out of the babies".
But your "orders" to your troops certainly adds an additional level of distaste so as to make it imperitive to fight to the last man as the Finns, or anyone else who would oppose you.

I stole the twisted phrase (kill the women, rape the men) from the silly, but very funny, movie The Last Remake of Beau Geste with Marty Feldman. You don't want to know what the troops were ordered to do with the farm animals. Now that we've taken care of the Finns we've got about six months to reach the Fuhrerbunker to beat the historical timeline. Unfortunately my opponent is very stubborn and will make it necessary to give my Russki troops a license to... well, do whatever it takes, if you know what I mean. Rules of war, we don't need no sticking rules of war!

[Stefdragon]

Originally posted by Mark_BookGuy

Rules of war, we don't need no sticking rules of war!

I believe the quote my friend is: "...no stinking rules of war!"
Obviously from the famous Cheech and Chong before they were movie stars. Most people don't know that they were US Army Rangers in the Vietnam War, true killers, serving four tours of duty,
in one of the most fertile agricultural parts of South East Asia.

Any subsequent famous quotes from them such as: "We don't need no stinkin' badges", was actually taken from this previous quote, which has been completely suppressed by Uncle ***.
(Geneva Convention, and all that)

Remember Woodstock Man! A true conflict of the human spirit!

[Ranger-75]

Actually it was German submarines that stopped British & US Lend/Lease convoys to Murmansk. They were losing ships at more than twice the rate of Atlantic convoys. Needles to say the ruskies were pissed off, especially since the vaunted rail link vir persia was already overtaxed. Nevertheless, thousands of vehicles, tanks and trains, etc made it to the soviets via persia, so Murmansk was not critical after all.

I will confirm that it (Murmansk) was definately more important during 1941-43 when the convoys were going through, because then, it was primarily British convoys and in 1941 primarly British equipment being sent (on those convoys). Later it was primarily US equipment going through persia (and a lot more of it).

[Stefdragon]

Exactly.
But you know, you Navy guys take all the credit for everything.
Here we have a nice friendly chat board about a game that has
almost nothing to do with even a darn PT boat, and of course you
have to come along with your AIRCRAFT CARRIER AVATAR and throw your two cents in about how critical the Naval operations were. Get a life dude.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Stefdragon
Exactly.
But you know, you Navy guys take all the credit for everything.

No, not everything, just the most important things.

[Bernard]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ranger-75
Actually it was German submarines that stopped British & US Lend/Lease convoys to Murmansk. They were losing ships at more than twice the rate of Atlantic convoys. [QUOTE]


don't forget Luftwaffe.
forget Kriegsmarine, when they did go out, Hitler gave such orders to ensure they not being sunk that they did nothing.

I I remember correctly, ther were 2 ports : Mourmansk and Arkhangelsk (?). One closed down for several months, the other was always free.

If I remember correctly too, convoys didn't stop, not even after PQ17. it's only when things were not so badly needed that they stopped.

By the way, why no Kriegsmarine or russian boats (if for nothing else than bombardement or evacuation or supply).
just for fun.

like, why no airborne troops or Spetznatz or Skorzeny bastards ?

bst regards.

[Stefdragon]

Okay here is an idea I thought about. AH was wild
about taking Baku, and for good reason. But let's face it, as a grand strategist, AH deserves the "3" Leadership rating he gets in WIR to say the least. If you really look at the logistics and supply challenges of the Axis player in WIR, it is virtually impossible to take and hold Baku, UNLESS the Axis player crushes the Soviets everywhere North and East of the Crimea, in essence winning the game. If that happens (which more likely than just taking Baku) then Baku would have surely fallen. So my premise is this grognards (what is a grog anyway?, you all use the word):
ALL THE HEXES SOUTH OF "Y" AXIS #54 (one hex SOUTH of Florence) ARE USELESS (other than showing the geographical perspective in the air war). Baku is a given oil source during the game for the Soviets. All other cities South of Y axis 54 would have an announcement and a combat/result report if attacked by Allied Air. There are other vast ununused areas of the map as well.

Would eliminating these hexes open up any additional memory/recources to add any further game depth or for example, Murmansk-like combat possibilities?

[Possum]

The location of many cities and railway hexes are fixed in the executable, as they have properties that are not listed in the map/scenario files.
eg Odessa is a port, Berlin is a supply sorce, hex 71,43 is a supply sorce.
Sigh.. this is just another minor annoyance that we will have to live with, as I doubt that Arnold is going to spend several hundred manhours pulling the executable apart, to enable the Relocation of the Supply/Victory/Port Cities.
(You would then have a new version of the WIR executable, which is incompatable with all existing scenarioes, nesesitating a compleat re-write of all the scenarios too.)

[Ranger-75]

Originally posted by Stefdragon
Exactly.
But you know, you Navy guys take all the credit for everything.
Here we have a nice friendly chat board about a game that has
almost nothing to do with even a darn PT boat, and of course you
have to come along with your AIRCRAFT CARRIER AVATAR and throw your two cents in about how critical the Naval operations were. Get a life dude.

That's not just any aircraft carrier, it's the USS Enterprise CV-6, the most decorated ship in the history of naval warfare.

I'm not even in the Navy, but it was a cool picture (I first saw it on the cover of an old wargame called "the Fast Carriers") liked it ever since. Actually I'm in the Army in logistics, and there ain't much glory in that. :p

[Ranger-75]

Originally posted by Bernard

Originally posted by Ranger-75
Actually it was German submarines that stopped British & US Lend/Lease convoys to Murmansk. They were losing ships at more than twice the rate of Atlantic convoys.

don't forget Luftwaffe.
forget Kriegsmarine, when they did go out, Hitler gave such orders to ensure they not being sunk that they did nothing.

"The Germans left harbour once a year by special permission" - Adm Golovko, commander of the Soviet Northern Fleet when he visited the HMS Duke of York on one of its rare voyages all the way to Murmansk.

You are correct about the two ports. The vast majority of convoys went to Murmansk - it was closer and was open year round.

[Stefdragon]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ranger-75



"The Germans left harbour once a year by special permission" - Adm Golovko

The "Corporal" had a long memory as to just who was in charge of the High Seas after the "decisive" German victory of JUTLAND,1916, the second and last major naval engagement of the Steam Age. Of course it is only the realm of the Russkies to brag about the first one...TSUSHIMA,1905!
BANZAI!, BANZAI! BANZAI!


My father had busted ear drums and was ineligible for military service in the BIG W. He gradeated from The Merchant Marine Academy in Brooklyn, NY, as a Petty Officer. He sailed the world aboard a cargo ship with a couple of deck guns and sheer numbers for protection.(oh, and a few subs, task forces, and aircraft too)

See you all on the PACWAR board, you bunch of Landlubbers!

"I am what I am, and dat's all what I am." - Famous Sailor

[Ranger-75]

Originally posted by Stefdragon

Originally posted by Ranger-75


The "Corporal" had a long memory as to just who was in charge of the High Seas after the "decisive" German victory of JUTLAND,1916, the second and last major naval engagement of the Steam Age. Of course it is only the realm of the Russkies to brag about the first one...TSUSHIMA,1905!
BANZAI!, BANZAI! BANZAI!

You are forgetting the "real" last battle of the steam age, Surigao strait where the Pearl Harbour battleships got their revenge

[Stefdragon]

Originally posted by Possum
I doubt that Arnold is going to spend several hundred manhours pulling the executable apart, to enable the Relocation of the Supply/Victory/Port Cities.
(You would then have a new version of the WIR executable, which is incompatable with all existing scenarioes, nesesitating a compleat re-write of all the scenarios too.)

"There you go again!" - Ronald Reagan during a Presidential Debate.

Just when I come up with a great idea, some techy has to come along (I knew it would be you Possum) with your mish mosh about hundreds of man hours and executable code baloney.

Let me tell you something, but you have to keep it to yourself.
Someday, after I hit Lotto or whatever, I am going to hire this Arnold guy, or whoever else it takes to set this game up to my specifications! Then I am going to rename it "STEFDRAGON IN RUSSIA!"

Until then, I see your point and will just have to be content with the current version that is available. Certainly a noble improvement over the original.

[davewolf]

I just have to like your style of writing, dude. Keep posting, you and Mark_Bookguy and Montenegro and ... all of course.

[Mark_BookGuy]

Hey, how come I keep getting notices that folks are responding to a post of mine on this thread? I don't recall making any smart alec comment about squids have small penduda and big ships?:) Besides, we all know the B-36 was better than any super-squidship.

I just beat my German PBEM opponent. Uncle Adolf decided his underground condo wasn't to his liking (the neighborhood was just too noisy and the wife was already nagging him) so he rearranged his dental work. Uncle Joe ordered his boys to determine if it's true that a Russian on your belly is better than a British bomb on your head.

My opponent is very good, but I don't think he wastes his time on this forum, er., oops, reads real intellectual stuff. He's a nut for War and Peace. I can pass on a recommendation to him if anyone is looking for a great opponent.

[davewolf]

How can he be so great, if you beat him?


Just j/k

[Mark_BookGuy]

Originally posted by davewolf
How can he be so great, if you beat him?


Just j/k

One should always recognize a good opponent. Then kick his butt back to the Oder.

[davewolf]

Good point.

[Stefdragon]

Mark & Dave,

I have read your last few posts and I have to tell you that the Father/Mother/Home-Land needs individuals such as yourselves. "Men who know what side their beard is buttered on!". (That is the expression, isn't it?)

You both will individually be contacted soon via *$#@#$!. (Heavily encrypted cybercode, decipherable by only the sharpest of minds, as there is no software out yet to crack it!). I am confident that you two will have no problem.

In all honesty, I am too nervous to play either one of you guys after reading your posts.

But as the Mighty U.S. Military learned in Vietnam:

"You cannot defeat an opponent that you cannot make contact with".

Until then my Cyber-Associates, I'll be waiting for you in the bushes.

The Dawg Gawn Dragawn

:rolleyes:

[davewolf]

Sounds like a challenge...


OOOOOUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(my wolf nature)