Yamtao Sinking Question

[John 3rd]

Brad and I's adversaries just sunk the Yamato in July 1942 by an attack of 102 SBD and 51 Avengers. The Strike Planes planted 41 1000lb bombs on Yamato with none penetrating the armor and 6 Torps put the BB down.

What has it taken for you to lose your Yamato?

The more serious question I have is does anyone know if the 1000lb bombs did any critical damage to Yamato or Musashi? I know they did terrible damage to the exposed portions of the ships but I THINK they didn't actually damage the citadel of the warships.

[wdolson]

Playing Allies, I once sank the Yamato in mid-1942 with a small gaggle of Stringbags from one of the RN carriers.  The Yamato went down so fast the follow up strike couldn't find her.  I forget the exact details, but it may have only been one torpedo hit.

Bill

[Nikademus]

in the game, non penetrating hits (bombs) can add bits of SYS that culminate in the ship being operationally crippled but you won't sink it. Torpedo effects in the game are such that you only need about 5 or 6 to sink even these beasties.

In RL, bombs did terrible topside damage and killed many in exposed positions, but the real killers were the torpedoes. More so after American flyers had applied lessons learned from taking on Musashi. Concentrating torp hits to one side primarily made capsizing a much greater threat and forced more desperate counterflooding to prevent it.

[String]

IRL one of the bombs that hit Musashi also wiped out a sizeable portion of its damage control teams.

[Hornblower]

I've only played 3 games as the Japanese, and only in 2 of them was the Yamato present (coral sea was the 3rd) and she was sunk once.  The facts are fuzzy at this point, but IIRC she was hit by 2-3 torps in an air attack.  She was hit a few more times by torps and some 1000 pounders before she could make Rabaul.  Once she got there to be pumped out, she was hit by an avalanch of 500 pounders from LBA's which demolished anything and everything above the deck armor.  (port attack i presume)  She lasted a week or so before the Glug Glug.. 

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: String

IRL one of the bombs that hit Musashi also wiped out a sizeable portion of its damage control teams.

believe that was a hit on Yamato and yes, it killed most of the aft damage control team.

[marky]

was playing against the AI a long time ago and one of my subs put a fish into Yamato.

She sank[X(]

i believe however that there was a magazine explosion, so that would do it i spose[:D]

once upon a time in Silent Hunter 4 i was NW of Rabaul and ran into Yamato. about 6 or so torpedoes later she just listed a bit but went right on by. but then thats SH4 and not WITP.

[castor troy]

usually I lose it to half a dozen torps but once lost it to two, the first didn´t do much damage, the second caused a magazine explosion... kablammo

[paullus99]

"A Glorious Way to Die" by Russel Spurr - New Market Press, 1981 goes into extreme detail (from both the US & Japanese perspective) on the last sortie of the Yamato. The 1000lbers from US Dive Bombers did quite a bit of damage during the attack, including destroying the after 8" turret. I believe there were also a couple of penetrating hits that did indeed wipe out one of the damage control teams & the temporary medic area.

It was also stated that the "armored box" design probably contributed to the sinking by limiting the lateral flexibility - transferring the effects of near misses directly to the bulkheads - literally allowing the ship to shake itself apart.

As far as torpedoes go, the Yamato took a single hit on Christmas Day, 1943 that caused ominous leakage. Ultimately, it is hard to tell exactly how many torpedoes hit, but it ranges from a low of 5 or 6 to as many as 12 - US Aviators underestimated Yamato's speed, which lead to quite a few missed opportunities.

Even though she was a beautiful ship, I don't believe she was as well-built or armored as people like to believe. In a head-to-head fight against an Iowa-class battleship, she would probably lose - due to the higher ROF & radar-directed gunnery (plus the disadvantage of not being as fast or responsive at the helm).

[mdiehl]

believe there were also a couple of penetrating hits that did indeed wipe out one of the damage control teams & the temporary medic area.

One of the bomb hits also destroyed some of the water mains aft, started an uncontrollable fire in a space adjacent to the aft 6" magazine, and may have blown the ship apart after the torpedoes put her underwater. Credible evidence suggests that the Yamato was sunk twice in one battle... that is, apart from the torpedo hits, the fire aft would eventually have detonated the main aft 6" magazine and then the aft 18" magazine in succession.

Yamato's legendary invulnerability to bombs is more mythical than real.

[FOW]

What a waste of 1000lbers [:(]
Those SBD pilots should have realised the futility of targeting the Yamato after the first dozen non-penetrating hits and gone for the CAs instead [;)]

FAO John - would you please let us know when Musashi goes on her 1st combat mission so we can greet her in the same fashion [:D]

[John Lansford]

In my last game vs the AI, Yamato was mercilessly bombed by several TF's of carrier planes in 1944.  She was hit at least 20 times by 1000 lb and 500 lb bombs, and at least half a dozen torpedoes.  She didn't sink, though, and began limping back to Japan from the Marianas, right into a sea of US subs waiting on her.  One of them torpedoed her three times, but she still didn't sink, but the next day another sub hit her one more time and I got the announcement that she finally went down.
 
When I checked the "sunk by" category in the ships sunk list, Yamato's cause of death was "1000 lb bomb" even though none of them ever penetrated anything at all.

[paullus99]

I would definitely recommend anyone interested check out "A Glorious Way to Die" - if you can still find a copy. The author interviewed as many of the remaining survivors as he could find to incorporate their stories into the historical record. With all the firepower that Task Force 58 threw at the Yamato group, it is a miracle that any of those ships survived to make it back to Japan.

The Yahagi (CA) was destroyed in less than 5 mins - with some of the destroyers lasting for only a little longer than that.

The lack of radar-directed fire control for the AA suite, and the lack of hard-hitting AA guns really made the Yamato more of a target than anything else. Of course, seeing the battleship in a surface engagement against American BBs would have been glorious - but once again, the lack of radar range-finding would have been crippling against the more modern Iowas.

Ultimately, she & the Musashi were White Elephants that the IJN could not afford.

[Wirraway_Ace]

Requiem for Battleship Yamato (Yoshida Mitsuru) paints a very vivid picture of what it was like on board during the air attacks.

My take-away was that Yamato was very well protected, but the intensity of the U.S. air attacks made a mockery of even her armor. She was doomed as soon as she sortied.

I would not want to have been an allied battleship to face her in the latter half of 1942 or early 43 however.

[wdolson]

If Halsey had heeded the threat from the Center Force at Leyte and parked his BBs at the exit of the San Bernadino Straits, the question of which was the better battleship would likely have been settled for good.  Though it would have been multiple Iowas and other US fast BBs against one Yamato and a number of much older battleships.

Bill

[marky]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

If Halsey had heeded the threat from the Center Force at Leyte and parked his BBs at the exit of the San Bernadino Straits, the question of which was the better battleship would likely have been settled for good.  Though it would have been multiple Iowas and other US fast BBs against one Yamato and a number of much older battleships.

Bill

now THAT wouldve been a fight!!!

Japanese Naval Task Force is surprised by Task Force 34

*bang bang bang bang bang*

*bubbblegurrbleblubblbebubble*

*Japanese Task Force Retreats*

[:D]

i was actually just playing SH4 again and ive positioned my boat near San Bernadino strait, i hope to get a shot at Kurita and Yamato...

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: FOW

What a waste of 1000lbers [:(]
Those SBD pilots should have realised the futility of targeting the Yamato after the first dozen non-penetrating hits and gone for the CAs instead [;)]

FAO John - would you please let us know when Musashi goes on her 1st combat mission so we can greet her in the same fashion [:D]

Musashi IS INVULNERABLE! She won't sink...

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

believe there were also a couple of penetrating hits that did indeed wipe out one of the damage control teams & the temporary medic area.

One of the bomb hits also destroyed some of the water mains aft, started an uncontrollable fire in a space adjacent to the aft 6" magazine, and may have blown the ship apart after the torpedoes put her underwater. Credible evidence suggests that the Yamato was sunk twice in one battle... that is, apart from the torpedo hits, the fire aft would eventually have detonated the main aft 6" magazine and then the aft 18" magazine in succession.

Yamato's legendary invulnerability to bombs is more mythical than real.

Yes, a large target; although waterline area was a good measure of damage resistance.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: FOW

What a waste of 1000lbers [:(]
Those SBD pilots should have realised the futility of targeting the Yamato after the first dozen non-penetrating hits and gone for the CAs instead [;)]

FAO John - would you please let us know when Musashi goes on her 1st combat mission so we can greet her in the same fashion [:D]

Not a waste--near misses were very effective.

[paullus99]

Extremely effective in some cases. The translation of the shock waves into the hull was enough to drive the reinforcing beams straight through the bulkheads they were supporting. Yamato's pumping systems were overly complicated & ineffective when confronted with torpedo hits concentrated on only on side of the ship.

Unfortunately, it was the Japanese that made Yamato obsolete the moment they dropped the first bombs on Battleship Row on Dec. 7th.

They probably could have built another couple of carriers & aircraft for each of the Yamato-class BBs they laid down. And look what happened to the Shinano.