cost of buying from matrix

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SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer »

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I would rather buy something like JTCS twice than spend 50 bucks for Call of duty World at war with a campaign that I could beat in a day a couple multiplayer maps when for half the price I could have multiple campagins, editors, Battle generator, plenty of scenario which gives unlimited replayablility and gameplay hours.

I think the matrix games are worth it unlike these games today that are all about graphics and not about gameplay and replayability.

Total agreement. The only games I actually keep on my desk in a small pile are the ones I bought here on Matrix cause I never get bored of them and I have to reinstall stuff sometimes due to hardware changes. The rest are sitting inside boxes somewhere. The extra 10 or 20 bucks or whatever I spend for a quality SSG title is well worth the premium over the mainstream stuff you can buy anywhere.

I reckon people here need to understand that the titles Matrix produces are very small projects, and without the advantage of mass distribution they can't possibly match the prices of the usual mainstream games. It's kind of a niche market so it's best to accept a bit higher price in exchange for better quality goods. Buying games here is a good way to ensure we keep getting quality games in the future.
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Obsolete
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Obsolete »

Well, I remember a time when I paid over 100$ for a super-duper game cartidge for my first NES. 

What will really make you cringe, is hearing what the title was...

ACTION-52

Anything that wasn't TERRIBLE was plagerized from other games.  I simply don't know how the developers & publisher never got their ass sued off.

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Perturabo
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I would rather buy something like JTCS twice than spend 50 bucks for Call of duty World at war with a campaign that I could beat in a day a couple multiplayer maps when for half the price I could have multiple campagins, editors, Battle generator, plenty of scenario which gives unlimited replayablility and gameplay hours.

I think the matrix games are worth it unlike these games today that are all about graphics and not about gameplay and replayability.
Personally, I'd rather buy myself seven books or seven music CDs. For me, collecting 35 - 45 Euro, one Euro a day while resigning from buying anything else is a big no-no.
sapper_astro
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by sapper_astro »

When I first came here, I, too, was shocked by the prices. I even made a post, similar to this one, especially about the shipping charges. Thankfully, this did make a difference and shipping came down. The game prices did not.

As has been stated, apart from the fact that the games here (usually) tend to hold the HD space for longer, the sliding scale needs to be applied.

If Joe Bloggs the wargame dev creates a game, he will not sell as many units as the next Call of Duty addon. Therefore, the price cannot really go down unless you do not want any more games from Bloggs. Our numbers do not permit the Gross Profit going below a certain percentage for the devs here. The CoD addon can afford to make a few dollars or less on every copy bought. We are talking hundreds of thousands of copies. The same cannot be said for wargaming.

Unless you can make half of the gaming population interested in hardcore wargaming, I am afraid that we will have to fork out the dollars on occasion. It does slow the spending down, and makes you look at a game quite a bit before you buy, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by bink »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Most of our new releases are in the $39.99 for a Download range, which we feel is a very fair price considering the small market and the development cost and the fact that these games are not generally available in retail or secondary markets (with the exception of a few legitimate dealers we do sell to, like NWS).

Regards,

- Erik

Erik, I have a few questions which arise from your post:

1. Why don't you make the games more widely available in retail markets? I have not found your products at retail, whereas I have found those of other wargamer makers, such as HPS Simulations.
2. What do you mean by secondary markets?
3. Why the emphasis on "legitimate" dealers you sell to - I assume it is a given you would not sell to illegitimate dealers?
4. Why not post a list of dealers on your website?

Thanks,

bink
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06 Maestro
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by 06 Maestro »

Although I would like to see lower prices (and gladly take advantage of sales), I fully understand that they have to have reasonable profits. 50 to 70 buck seems like a lot, but again, as has been mentioned many times before, how many hours will you be entertained by those purchases? This is still a deal hard to beat.

In view of the giant commercial and government scams that are going on in our times (Chinese shoes and shirts costing 30 dollars here when those should cost 3, European governments doling out hundreds of millions-if not billions for China to build super polluting coal fire generating plants so the Europeans can feel "green", banks charging 10X the interest on mortgages than they pay in interest and so on), it seems to me that the guru's of Matrix Games pricing are, at least in heart, part of the proletariat.

Real income has fallen for nearly everyone for at least 30 years. This makes it more difficult to find the funds for recreational activities. The last ones to blame for this situation are small development companies that are struggling to stay in business.
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06 Maestro
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by 06 Maestro »

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I would rather buy something like JTCS twice than spend 50 bucks for Call of duty World at war with a campaign that I could beat in a day a couple multiplayer maps when for half the price I could have multiple campagins, editors, Battle generator, plenty of scenario which gives unlimited replayablility and gameplay hours.

I think the matrix games are worth it unlike these games today that are all about graphics and not about gameplay and replayability.

You are starting to sound like a gronard already[;)]-good for you.
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

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105mm Howitzer
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by 105mm Howitzer »

Complain, complain, complain,wah, wah, wah...Ya, you guys have all excellent points, but here's one for thought...How much is the boardgame version in your city/country? Over here, the price of a new boxed wargame is grossly indecent. For example, back in 1981 or so, I bought Squad Leader, pasi about 25 $ for it. The year after, went and get COI, also for about 25$. Fast forward to 2003, where in my local gaming store, saw the same friggin game at *drum roll please* $ 157.99 !!!!! What the.....Know what the owner said? It's a collector's item. No it isn't, says I, it's just COI....Yeah, but now, they're hot collectibles. Checked it out, other games ( such as East Front II) was retailing at over $200.00
Bottom line, pc games are still ( relatively) cheap.

ps: You wanna try an expensive hobby? Might I recommend miniature trains or even better yet, RC aircraft/boats ?
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Perturabo
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Perturabo »

Well, in Poland, local wargames from B35 system which usually include 200-400 counters, a board, an instruction and scenarios cost - 49-59PLN which is about 16,3 - 19,7$.

Miniature trains and other models are pretty hard to manufacture, which means that cheaper models usually have very poor quality.
Kuokkanen
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Kuokkanen »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

1. Times are tough and everyone's watching their spending (gaming is still one of the most economical forms of entertainment when it comes to that)
Erik means VIDEO gaming here. Many analog games, and gambling in particular, can be... not so economical. Seriously guys, new retail computer game from shelf costs as little (~50 €) as new rulebook for miniature wargame! And when that one miniature wargame has MANY rulebooks available for it + miniatures, mapsheets, sourcematerial... and just single handful of fellow players in next town [8|]

[edit]
Some of you may know this already from personal experience with Warhammers, D&D, BattleTech and others. Comments above are meant to those that don't.
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Perturabo
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Perturabo »

Well, at least miniature wargames don't require buying a computer[:'(].
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Erik Rutins
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Erik Rutins »

When you buy a new board game, do you add the cost of your dining room table and chairs to its price? [;)]
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by leastonh1 »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

When you buy a new board game, do you add the cost of your dining room table and chairs to its price? [;)]
ROFL! Not forgetting the cost of earning brownie points with the wife for letting you spend the money in the first place! [:D]
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Perturabo
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

When you buy a new board game, do you add the cost of your dining room table and chairs to its price? [;)]
Chairs and tables usually don't become "obsolete".

Also, one can use floor[:D].
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105mm Howitzer
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by 105mm Howitzer »

Fine then , the cost of the rent or mortgage?
Big brand wargames are damn pricey, and unlike pc games, which could be modded or have upgrades, borad games remain as such. That COI game had he same design and counters as the one in the 80's. Hell, I purchased SPI Global War on EBay cheap at 40$ Cdn, compared to the usual starting bidding price of 70 or 80$.
I might buy less games for the PC nowadays, but at least I won't completely stop. ( unlike bordgames...Sole exception is the M44 series)
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" - Publius Renatus, 390 A.D.
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by bink »

I am reposting these questions in the hope of getting a response from Erik (or some other Matrix employee):

Erik, I have a few questions which arise from your post:

1. Why don't you make the games more widely available in retail markets? I have not found your products at retail, whereas I have found those of other wargamer makers, such as HPS Simulations.
2. What do you mean by secondary markets?
3. Why the emphasis on "legitimate" dealers you sell to - I assume it is a given you would not sell to illegitimate dealers?
4. Why not post a list of dealers on your website?

Thanks,

bink
killroyishere
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by killroyishere »

Actually Matrixgames does have other distributers who may or may not use brick n mortar outlets for these products. Check out Amazon.com and you will see another distributers name instead of Matrixgames. NWS online is another outlet that sells their boxed games with manuals and cdroms for the same price as the download price from here with much less shipping and handling charges. Then of course there is ebay and there are a few foreign outlets that you can buy Matrixgames for 1/2 price of what they charge here like Witp for $36 or Crown of Glory for $14 things like that. These are foreign editions but still play with English language and the manuals are in English as well. You can get Matrixgames for much less if you just shop around the web.
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
Then of course there is ebay and there are a few foreign outlets that you can buy Matrixgames for 1/2 price of what they charge here like Witp for $36 or Crown of Glory for $14 things like that. These are foreign editions but still play with English language and the manuals are in English as well.

Just FYI, the vast majority of those copies are not actually legit. Some are and a few of our titles went to retail which means they are out there at discount prices, but much of that comes from a Polish publisher who we had a limited deal with that only allowed them to sell in Poland. They went ahead and sold outside of Poland and past the timeline of the deal and we've had a heck of a time getting that shut down, though there's been some progress recently.
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: bink
1. Why don't you make the games more widely available in retail markets? I have not found your products at retail, whereas I have found those of other wargamer makers, such as HPS Simulations.

Retail just isn't what it used to be even five years ago. With that said, we've sent at least one game to retail every year, just to maintain a presence and introduce our games to customers who haven't found us online yet. We choose carefully which games we feel would do best in retail, since the retail market overall is not just tough for PC games, but especially tough for traditional PC strategy games. Which retail markets are you looking at that you don't see any of our games while you see other wargames?
2. What do you mean by secondary markets?

Basically, both dealers/redistributors and the process of reselling that goes on once a game is out there. Retail releases are much more prone to this, since retail stores tend to try to move through their stock quickly, so games that go to retail often end up discounted to budget bin prices, liquidated and re-sold at that level for years to come.
3. Why the emphasis on "legitimate" dealers you sell to - I assume it is a given you would not sell to illegitimate dealers?

See my comments above about the troubles we had with a Polish publisher. We've also seen some pirated copies show up on EBay from other areas.
4. Why not post a list of dealers on your website?

We're willing to sell to dealers, but we let them do their own promotion.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
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bink
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RE: cost of buying from matrix

Post by bink »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: bink
1. Why don't you make the games more widely available in retail markets? I have not found your products at retail, whereas I have found those of other wargamer makers, such as HPS Simulations.

Retail just isn't what it used to be even five years ago. With that said, we've sent at least one game to retail every year, just to maintain a presence and introduce our games to customers who haven't found us online yet. We choose carefully which games we feel would do best in retail, since the retail market overall is not just tough for PC games, but especially tough for traditional PC strategy games. Which retail markets are you looking at that you don't see any of our games while you see other wargames?

For example, J&R Music World in NYC stocks a wide selection of HPS Titles - I was there yesterday and they had at least 8 different HPS games that I saw.

3. Why the emphasis on "legitimate" dealers you sell to - I assume it is a given you would not sell to illegitimate dealers?
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

See my comments above about the troubles we had with a Polish publisher. We've also seen some pirated copies show up on EBay from other areas.

Pirated copies have nothing to do with supplying dealers, "legitimate" or otherwise.
4. Why not post a list of dealers on your website?
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
We're willing to sell to dealers, but we let them do their own promotion.
That is different to the practices of most companies, and is also counter to your concern over "legitimate" dealers.

Firstly, it is a convenience to consumers to be able to look up where they can buy a product on the manufacturer's website. Secondly, it allows consumers to check whether the dealer they are considering a purchase from is a "legitimate" dealer.

I am not suggesting that you do promotions for companies that resell your products, but I do not consider listing dealers as really promoting them.

I would think it would be trivial for you to add a page to your website listing authorized distributors.

Doesn't it also protect you from rogue distributors, since customers can check before making a purchase?
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