The Fleet the Gods Forgot: ALLIED Perspective

[pat.casey]

ORIGINAL: String

Um, since when can't infantry pursue their opponents? You fought in the mountains for weeks and now feel that it is gamey when the enemy forces flank you along the coast and surround you?

Why?

Gotta agree with this. Seems like you've been beating up on your opponent pretty well all game, then complain about "gaminess" when he uses an innocuous game mechanic (the pursuit rules) to return the favor.

If there'd been a house rule against infantry purusing beforehand that'd be a different matter.
Likewise if this had been a particularly "abusive" mechanic (like paradropping a single squad to cut off your retreat), I think you'd have a colorable argument that "everybody know's that's gamey so a house rule didn't seem necessary; it was implied".

Pursuit though doesn't fall into either of those categories if you ask me. Seems like reasonable gameplay from your opponent.

[Nemo121]

Aye there was no HR against it so it was absolutely fair game.
 
You can't call brilliance when you do something he doesn't expect and gamey when he does something you didn't provide for.
 
 
Personally I can see your point re: infantry not Shock Attacking but unless it is forbidden in HRs then it is fair game.

[John 3rd]

Thanks Nemo.  You are correct.

I would imagine that 80% of the WitP players would call the Infantry Shock Attack--Pursue as a gamey/abusive move.  I have never had an issue with Tanks because that is what they are all about.  Can remember Dan and I talking about this when I was deep in Australia.  He called me on it and I agreed.  Since then ONLY Armor!

At any rate I left it as is and we go on.  Better to discover this now so things are cool later.  In this situation it isn't any real big deal.  I would have fought it out differently if I knew this would happen but who cares.  Will just head down the eastern side of the Peninsula and see what happens.


 

[John 3rd]

Take a look at this situation. I have 46 Fighters and 72 SBDs all in the same condition!

[String]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Take a look at this situation. I have 46 Fighters and 72 SBDs all in the same condition!

I'm not sure but i've had it as well. Perhaps someone spiked the PM avgas tanks with sugar?

[String]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Thanks Nemo.  You are correct.

I would imagine that 80% of the WitP players would call the Infantry Shock Attack--Pursue as a gamey/abusive move.  I have never had an issue with Tanks because that is what they are all about.  Can remember Dan and I talking about this when I was deep in Australia.  He called me on it and I agreed.  Since then ONLY Armor!

Well perhaps, but my take on this is that the japanese did exactly that in Malaya with their infantry/bicycle troops. Shock attacked and pursued.

[n01487477]

John,
I've had it do this sometimes too - I believe it is a glitch where the program thinks you are docked [&:][&:], so before I transfer I always do a save. Reopen the save and usually the next time I open, or the next time etc ... the transfer works flawlessly without having this occur. Micromanagement at its finest.

As for the shock-attack-pursue issue, I have to say I think it is totally acceptable...
--Damian--

[John 3rd]

They did good work.

I must share a wonderful development regarding Japanese sinkings. After my CVs plastered the shipping off of Koepang about a week ago, CA Aoba sank but Kinugasa got away. NOT! O 21 found her about to enter Kendari, put 2 Torps into her tender side, and SANK her! HUZZAH! This makes FOUR Japanese CAs sunk...

Am running for my life in the Coral Sea but will have to post that later.

[Capt. Harlock]

I must share a wonderful development regarding Japanese sinkings. After my CVs plastered the shipping off of Koepang about a week ago, CA Aoba sank but Kinugasa got away. NOT! O 21 found her about to enter Kendari, put 2 Torps into her tender side, and SANK her! HUZZAH! This makes FOUR Japanese CAs sunk... Am running for my life in the Coral Sea but will have to post that later.

Congratulations for the first!

Arrgh! Hate waiting on the second . . .[:D]

[John 3rd]

The Coral Sea
January 12, 1942

The Japanese are trying to slap the Allies down for their imprudence for FIGHTING in the Coral Sea! We'll have to see how this plays out. If the damned game hadn't of damaged all my CV Squadrons transferring to PM I'd be pretty confident of inflicting some serious losses. As is...we shall see...

I have ordered the CVs and STF back to Rockhampton to await developments.

On the other side of the Coral Sea I have Marines moving into Luganville to begin building that up. A NZ Brigade will land in a few days at Koumac to garrison the other end of New Caledonia.

My ANZAC Group got hit pretty hard when CarDiv2 did a Full Speed move on the 8th. I lost CA Louisville, CL Achilles, and 3 DD. All the others have made it far enough away to get to safety.

[John 3rd]

If I cannot sting him heavily in the Coral Sea then I will do so in the Western DEI. My recon spots an Invasion Force approaching Mersing. I move planes and prepare to give battle.

The screenshot shows over 200 planes at Singapore. There are 128 Fighters. I order all three Squadrons of Buffalo to fly the less dangerous escort mission while 75 P-40 (Four Squadrons--2 AVG and 2 from the Philippines) fly CAP to bloody the expected bombing raid for tomorrow's turn. The Buffalo will Escort 80 Bombers (60 A-20/B-25/B-26/Hudson and 20 TB). The Medium Bombers are flying low to the wave tops (1,000 Ft) and I have high hopes of inflicting serious damage on the TF.

Palembang will contribute 49 Martins flying from its airfield.

Could be fairly exciting to watch.

Naval activity continues:
1. On the west side of the screenshot you see Prince of Wales plodding along for Aden!

2. I have not pulled all warships out of the DEI yet. Presently there are 4 CL and 12 DD in Soerabaja. I pull some of that Fleet to move NW. The other arrow coming up from the north is a STF of 1 CL and 8 DD making a speed run from Soerabaja to Palembang. If given a chance they will mix it up pretty quickly.

3. There are also 4 SS vectored into the line of the attack also.

Here is where the Japanese concentration off Port Moresby hurts. I know where at least 8 of the Japanese CVs are and at least 6 Daitai of Betty/Nell. He does not have many additional Daitai of those planes around so I feel a little safer moving a STF into action. It is still LR CAP by 2 Buffalo Squadrons to be safe though.

[John 3rd]

The action begins with a massive aerial round over Singapore.

We have a good fight over Port Moresby too. In action there, 13 Buffalo and Wildcats fight 8 Zero and 97 Betty/Nell. The Americans only lose 1 Wildcat in exchange for 1 Zero and 13 Betty/Nell! Nice work by the flyboys. The AF is slightly damaged in the attack and 3 Fighters are destroyed on the ground along with 4 SBD.

Total Losses for the day are 101 Allied for 69 Japanese planes. Some serious but good work. The major Japanese airframes lost are: 16 Zero, 20 Oscars, and 29 Betty/Nell/Sally. My planes get hurt but I'll lose my 60 EXP pilots to the 80 EXP Japanese! Since all the fighting was over my home field, have to note that I didn't lose too many pilots at all.

[John 3rd]

A suspended Invasion? A called off invasion? What has happened...

[John 3rd]

The First Operation Round-Up was so successful, the Commanding General orders another Offensive against the Japanese. It will move in a different direction this time:

[John 3rd]

Here is the crumbling situation in Malaya:

[Canoerebel]

It was your bad to "assume" that your opponent wouldn't do something that isn't only permitted but reasonable.  You owe him an apology for calling his moves gamey, making him feel that he had done something wrong when he hadn't.

[John 3rd]

Hey Dan!  You're up late.

I didn't ask for the redo whatsoever.  We chatted about it and agreed on the Attack--Pursue rule after it happened.  In many ways it was just like you and me when this happened in Australia except I was the one doing it with my Armor.  Seems like ages ago doesn't it??!!  [8D][8D][8D]

I haven't raised a concern with him since we settled on what to do moving forward.  Simple grumbling on my part in MY AAR.

Don't know what I would have done differently.  I guess make the northern stand and then retreat all the way back to Johore Bharu would answer that.  It poses an interesting issue on how one would try to fight it.  With SEVEN Inf Div committed to the Malay Campaign it really doesn't make a difference now does it?  IF I can hold Singapore to February 1st against that sort of firepower I will be quite happy.

Forgot to note with the Malaya screenshot that I have ordered a 5 DD STF to strike at Mersing from Palembang.  Since he pulled the warships out they might actually cause some trouble.  Made certain that the DDs were covered by 2 Fighter Squadrons from DIFFERENT bases so they have at least some protection.  Won't amount to much but it should help.
 

[paullus99]

As far as his indecision at PM - he might have been going after your carriers & had to pull back for a couple of reasons, perhaps out of fuel or needed to assist in reducing/consolidating at Rabaul.

If you can keep him racing back and forth, it will attrite his airgroups (hopefully) and increase SYS damage.

One interesting item I found yesterday (in the book Shattered Sword) - Japanese industry was only able to produce 52 carrier aircraft in all of 1942 - talk about a screwed up warplan.

[John 3rd]

Those are possibilities.  He is certainly putting on some serious miles with his CVs.  The move by CarDiv2 to get over to Lae/New Ireland had to be a speed run.  It is wear-and-tear.  Think he also did EXPECT the CVs and finding CV Fighters flying out of PM has confused him too...

[ny59giants]

I would send Prince of Wales further to the west before heading towards Aden. If has any Nell/Betty at Georgetown they may reach out and put in that final torpedo to sink her. [:-]