How do you get into WitP?

wdolson · Post by **wdolson** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:22 am

I played the Battleline/Avalon Hill board game Flat Top many years ago, back when PCs were still in diapers.  I had a lot of war games, but Flat Top was my favorite.  Even back then, I was trying to come up with ways to computerize it.

When I heard about Uncommon Valor, which covers the same area and the same time period, I knew I needed to buy it.  I like UV a lot.  Flat Top had pretty fine detail for a board game, but UV had even more. 

Then WitP came along, which took the same engine as UV and expanded it to encompass half the Earth.  I've been hooked ever since.  When AE was announced, I stepped forward and I've been part of the team ever since.  I'm still one of the johnny come latelys, but I've been working on it for 17 months now.

I have not bought another game since buying WitP about three or four years ago.  It's not the sort of game that appeals to everyone, but for most of the people on this forum, it's exactly the kind of game they love.  It's high in detail, you can learn a fair bit of history playing it, and it's a lot of fun.

Bill

TOMLABEL · Post by **TOMLABEL** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:34 am

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I played the Battleline/Avalon Hill board game Flat Top many years ago, back when PCs were still in diapers. I had a lot of war games, but Flat Top was my favorite. Even back then, I was trying to come up with ways to computerize it.

When I heard about Uncommon Valor, which covers the same area and the same time period, I knew I needed to buy it. I like UV a lot. Flat Top had pretty fine detail for a board game, but UV had even more.

Then WitP came along, which took the same engine as UV and expanded it to encompass half the Earth. I've been hooked ever since. When AE was announced, I stepped forward and I've been part of the team ever since. I'm still one of the johnny come latelys, but I've been working on it for 17 months now.

I have not bought another game since buying WitP about three or four years ago. It's not the sort of game that appeals to everyone, but for most of the people on this forum, it's exactly the kind of game they love. It's high in detail, you can learn a fair bit of history playing it, and it's a lot of fun.

Bill

Echoing wdolson's comments, I too grew up playing AH's Midway, VItP, WAS, and some computerized spin off of AH's Third Reich wishing there was SOMETHING similar to this for the Pacific campaign. Being a WWII history freak, I longed for a game that would be challenging as well. School, work and then marriage interuppted a period of time since that point and I missed any mention of UV, but searching on the internet one day, I came across WITP. I probably spent a month contemplating on whether to buy at $70 or not, but read several of the AAR and became convinced that I had to buy.

I had played games like DOOM, COD, and endless others right up until I purchased WITP. From that point foward, I find it hard to impossible to go back to any of those games in a serious fashion and have not bought another game since that time which was 2006!

I'll be the first to admit it......I need anti-WITP therapy (of course, at my wife's urging!!!)

TOMLABEL

Ron Saueracker · Post by **Ron Saueracker** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:15 am

Hey Rich. Dive right in because the water's warm and the cocktails and neccessities are all inclusive for the low price of 70 bucks. It's a bit of a sausage fest around here but hey, women are for bedrooms and kitchens, not the war room!!! Anyway, you will need WITP to play the AE refit so get started ASAP. Welcome to the crack house.

vettim89 · Post by **vettim89** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:39 am

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hey Rich. Dive right in because the water's warm and the cocktails and neccessities are all inclusive for the low price of 70 bucks. It's a bit of a sausage fest around here but hey, women are for bedrooms and kitchens, not the war room!!! Anyway, you will need WITP to play the AE refit so get started ASAP. Welcome to the crack house.

Crack House? Don't you think that is a bit extreme? Now why is my PBEM turn not in my mail box yet? (twitch) Really this game is not that addicting (muscle spasms). I think these guys are using a bit of hyperbole (cold chills break). In truth, the only other games I play now are the ones to occupy my time while waiting for my PBEM turn to come (AIEEEE, falls to the floor, assumes fetal position, and starts sucking his thumb)

Larry, could you please send that turn before I kill some one?

BrucePowers · Post by **BrucePowers** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:44 am

Helping you to learn the game are some really knowledgeable and friendly people right here in these forums.

modrow · Post by **modrow** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:50 am

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

Helping you to learn the game are some really knowledgeable and friendly people right here in these forums.

And, of course, a "mean and evil" foe in your first PBEM. Go for a small scenario first...

Hartwig

modrow · Post by **modrow** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:56 am

In addition, it may be helpful to mention a few more things that make this game different:

* this is not about finding the what kills what best sequence and optimizing your force mix accordingly (at least not globally). You can not just decide you want more CVs, more tank divisions, more fighter squadrons. In a limited way, you can optimize the types of planes you are using as long as your pools and production support it. You do not have an infinite supply of war material and just "buy" after acquiring the necessary credits. Production can be tweaked as Japanese player, but the degrees of customization stay limited and the process is not instantaneous. But mainly, you are stuck within a given OOB and need to optimize what you achieve with it.

* remember that you are playing a several year war on a day (or two day or three day) turn basis. This implies that running a complete operation can easily take two or three months, and even this only if you do not prep your troops fully for your target (needs 100 days). You need to plan ahead, which includes the need to provide supplies and fuel at the right locations. You can have a splendid opportunity to destroy the enemy fleet which fails because you did not provide the fuel needed at the respective location. As Allies, you need to ship a lot of stuff to the place where it is needed, which takes easily more than a month game time. Therefore, this game has a significant logistics aspect. AE is rumoured to be even more demanding in this respect.

* do NOT expect that your plans run like a clockwork. The dice are important - a lucky hit on a key unit can change the entire outcome of a battle. Not all air missions fly (weather issues, morale issues, supply issues...) and some get lost. Not all air missions that do fly hit the right target (naval attack will often attack a TF which you consider to be of secondary importance rather than the target you want to attack). Multi-strike attacks will suffer from coordination problems and may come in piecemeal... And many a TF did not move as scheduled, because the TF commander just felt his DDs need urgent refueling or reacted into the enemy CV TF just when you wanted to avoid it at all cost. Your subordinates may just not do what you want them to do. Things get worse if a PBEM opponent also does not do want you want him to do (WEGO makes this even more of a "problem"). This is part of why waiting to see how your plans evolved when you receive the next turn creates so much tension and thrill.

All of this makes WitP very different. I like it a lot, even though I bought other games after WitP I end up spending my gaming time with WitP rather than using them. A lot of fun for the money I paid. But definitely not something for everyone.

Hartwig

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:38 am

I did I get into WitP? I FELL and I can't find the darn ladder to get back out. I'm stuck. [8D]

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:15 pm

I got into WITP because I got hooked on its predecessor, "Uncommon Valor."

Incidentally, it is possible to play WITP *and* enjoy other games. I'm living proof! I play at least a couple of turns of WITP every day (lately against the AI only), but I also play other Matrix wargames, strategy games like Civ IV and Galactic Civs, even a little WoW. WITP doesn't have to dominate your life. Although whenever I play a WITP PBEM, it does seem that my life revolves around that.

AW1Steve · Post by **AW1Steve** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:35 pm

WITP is better than most addictions, as you only pay for it once. And the only thing you lose is time (isn't that the definition of most hobbies?). Some spouses (like mine ) prefer you you to spending time with WITP , rather than booze,drugs, or other women. It frees up the TV so they can watch chick flicks.
 
 WITP is the only addiction where the support group is there to keep you ON the addiction![:D]

BrucePowers · Post by **BrucePowers** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:05 pm

With Canoerebel being the exception.

BrucePowers · Post by **BrucePowers** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:09 pm

People here are calling it an addiction. I don't really believe it is. As A1WSteve says, you pay for it once. It can take as much or as little time as you desire. (Right now I am in one PBEM and one game against the AI.) This is a hobby. Despite their posts, I have a suspicion that most forum members balance their family, work and hobbies (WITP) fairly well.

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:23 am

ORIGINAL: richlove

Hi all, new forum member, potential player. I'm curious about WitP but I'm hesitating at the price - $70 is a lot to plunk down on a whim. Is there a demo? Some other way to tell whether I'd actually enjoy the game?

Although there is no demo of WITP available, you could download the free Matrix version of PacWar. That is a DOS game from the early 1990s but it is the grandfather of WITP. If you find the micromanagement level of PacWar too demanding and inappropriate, then you don't have to bother with WITP because its level of detail and micromanagement is considerably more so. Consider PacWar as the canapes for the main meal of WITP.

Alfred

stuman · Post by **stuman** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:49 pm

ORIGINAL: richlove

Easy enough. Grand strategy is my sweet spot - I'm currently coming off a Hearts of Iron 2 binge; worked my way through EU2, MOO, Civ1-3, a few others. Played a good deal of tabletop games in my youth - Panzer Leader, DDay, Fleet Series.

The complexity and subject matter appeal...

I jumped from HOI 2 into WiTP as well. I really enjoy WiTP, and I bet you will as well. Since you are familiar with HOI 2, assuming you liked it, then I do not think the micromanaging in WiTP will be daunting. HOI 2 has a world map, and thousands of land units, and economies to run, etc. so you are used to keeping track of a massive amount of data. The major difference for me was that of switching from primarily a land army concept to a sea based one. This is a great game, and I think the most interesting forums around. Plus tbh, I was tired of panzers [:)]

tocaff · Post by **tocaff** » Mon May 04, 2009 4:30 pm

In human history no greater effort is ever made than in war. 

In gaming WITP stands alone in the effort made and there's no blood, just sweat and tears.  I've always been into war games since I was a kid and naval was the focus.  Hell, in university I did a paper on the Royal Navy from the 1770s through the Napoleonic War.  That was the most fun I ever had in school, most work that I ever did there too.  So WITP was something that was inevitable in my life.

Barb · Post by **Barb** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:15 pm

Well to speak truthfully:
I and few of my friends were "playing" various "self-designed" war games. Drawing World onto cross-section paper in size more than 4x3m and then designing ground-air-sea system for world war to based on few books and good amount of guess was pretty fun.
We also drawed ships on paper, cut them out and then throwing an arrow on them to simulate hits, counting bomb weight against ships displacement.
Another system was to draw % of hits. Say you have 9x406mm salvo = 3654 wight of metal. You picked up 20%, well you did 1827 damage to ship displacement... There were nice critical hits too.
One of the most fun naval warfare system was to glue together few cigarette boxes with match-boxes to get a ship-like shape. Throwing little stones indicated hits. Then petards and maroons were applied on hitted spots. After the fight, ships were taken to a pond to see if they survived...

Computers allowed another level like HOI2 lan games or SPWAW pitched battles (each eagainst the other so Allied vs Russians were fighting too).
HoI2 is nice, but relaxing game for me. SPWAW is fine, but land combat. UV was good, WITP is best game now, AE will be NO.1 for me

Ah, those memories.... [:D]

witpqs · Post by **witpqs** » Mon May 04, 2009 6:42 pm

ORIGINAL: Barb

After the fight, ships were taken to a pond to see if they survived...

Now that's the acid test! [:D]

aciddrinker · Post by **aciddrinker** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:53 am

if u dont live in usa, just buy from some reselers, i buyed my copy for somthing around 2€.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:08 am

This game is the most interesting, life-filling game i´ve ever seen.
 
I played NO other game with this enthusiasm and fun like this.
 
Since it comes out, i played it and even when i bought other games, NONE of them can reach WITP, and Iám shure no one ever will ever do-except AE[:D]

madgamer2 · Post by **madgamer2** » Thu May 07, 2009 3:04 am

I wish I had heard of this forum BEFORE I bought this game in 04. Oh I love the game period and the setting but this game is just to much micromanaging for my old brain. Even against the computer AI at one day at a time ....well I I 68 and could be gone before I ever finished a game.
I do not do well with logistics and with AE being even more in that direction I may not be moving on. Due to a strange accident with my version nuymber and my saved files my latest game is gone and I would have to start a new game and I am not sure I want to go again now that I have a couple of games that I can deal with a bit better.
I have learned in life there are things you really love buyt that is no proof that you will be good at things you love (SIGH) so I am afraid that WitP will not see much time now. Everything these guys are telling you is true and I wish I had there advice before I put myuself through almost 5 years of trying to master this great game...I do wish you luck.....try to keep a real life going to

Madgamer

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