New Aircrafts Arrival Date

[wargames]

Manual says Allies get P-51D as early as 1st Jan 1944. Clearly not the case when trying '44 campaign. On the other hand, does anybody have a list of arrival date for Axis new types without research, Me109K/Fw190D/Ta152H/Do335A/Me262A/Ju88G/Me110-4U, 1.06x5 please?

[wargames]

Okay, I just figured out that P-51D arrives in April '44, Me110-4/U8 in January '44.

[wernerpruckner]

not at home at the moment, but most A/C will arive around the RL month without R&D.

[Hard Sarge]

from the data

Bf 109K-4, 9/44
Fw 190D, 9/44
Ta 152H, 1/45
Do 335A, 2/45
Ju 88G, 6/44
Bf 110G-4/U8, 1/44

P-51D, 4/44

(those are not the dates in EDtBTR)

[wargames]

That's brilliant! Thanks! So if I divert two major Me106G-6 factories to Ta152H early on, I shall get the new toy in spring 1944. Just in time to counter P-51Ds.

[Hard Sarge]

in the old game, you have to watch with changeing big Factories over to a new build

it is faster, to change over a couple of small Factories, then to change one big one

also, remember you need all of the parts/engines alongs with the frames, to count

[wargames]

Sure. I need to take retooling time into consideration. At least I will wait until Allies demolishes Bussing NAG. It takes time for the new factories to grow, perfect time to for retooling the CFAC.

By confiscating G55s and MC205s before the Italians surrender, I am not desparately short in decent aircrafts. Me106G-6 is already the most obsolete model I have.

[Dixie]

With the standard arrival dates for types, are these dates based on:
1) First production models rolling out of the factories?
2) First deliveries to the national air force?
3) First deliveries to front line units?
4) First operation by front line units?
5) Some mix of the above?

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

With the standard arrival dates for types, are these dates based on:
1) First production models rolling out of the factories?
2) First deliveries to the national air force?
3) First deliveries to front line units?
4) First operation by front line units?
5) Some mix of the above?

can't tell you about BTR, but in EDtBTR it is more 5 I would say, same with units

the 219 and the 262 are good ones for confusion, both were flying way before they were being made, for both of these, I added in a Preproduction model, so the test Kommados can still fly and test them, with out them being able to be produced yet

[wargames]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

from the data

Bf 109K-4, 9/44
Fw 190D, 9/44
Ta 152H, 1/45
Do 335A, 2/45
Ju 88G, 6/44
Bf 110G-4/U8, 1/44

P-51D, 4/44

(those are not the dates in EDtBTR)

New research result

P-51B 11/43
P-47D 11/43

Me262A 9/44
Me163B 6/44

[wargames]

We know that every 100 preproduction model made can bring new a/c one month ahead of time. The problem is, I believe, no a/c will be availble to use until the first day of the following month when the new type is deemed available. This may result a significant waste on "unnecessay R&D".
 
For instance, I converted some factories to speed up Me262 production. I have one factory rolling out Me262 from 17/08/43. Assuming no Allied interruption, I will have a daily output of 5 Me262 from 27/09/43. On 1/10/43, 55 Me262 are in R&D pool. After that, 150 Me262 every month. By 01/02/44, 655 Me262 will be in R&D pool, errrrrr, just not enough to bring Me262 live! As a result, no Me262 will be available until 01/03/44. So, in February '44, a total of 150 more Me262 went to the R&D pool, 100 of which were in fact wasted. 100 Me262 are 400 engines. Imaging 400 more Fw190 or Ta154 in the sky! Did I get anything wrong here?
 
Another related question here. We all know that actually a/c produced is not always the same as it is supposed. Say, I have 12 Fw190 lines active. I may recieve something like between 10 to 14 Fw190 a day instead of a steady 12 every day. sometimes I even receive non-production types, e.g. D520 or even Me210. Does this happen to R&D types as well? If so, even if I divert anothe factory to produce extra 50 Me262, I may still be unlucky to topup the pool without knowing it. That's a pain, isn't it?

[Hard Sarge]

so... you will have 5 frames and 20 Engines a day, plus the 5 parts for the 262, that is a pretty big drain on the rest of the LW ?

so..., that would be 150 frames and 600 engines a month, which the 150 and 150 is not too bad, but that other 450 Engines that are not being built to use, is going to be ruff

did you get anything wrong ? no, R@D is going to Hurt (that is 600 fighters a month that are not being built, or 3000-3600 fighters not build while waiting for the 262, which is still going to come in, in dribs and drabs)

what is really going to hurt is if any of those R@D sites get hit

and yes, production is not 100%, all kinds of things can interfear with it, plus Engines are even more touchy the Frames and parts (and with out going into details, the Frames and Parts for the 262 are not good% builds, and the Jumo Jet while not the best  buildable  Engine (the BMW  Jet and Walter Rocket are worse) they do not build well (it was the bottleneck of the plane afterall

[wargames]

When you say the jet engines are not the "best buildable", do you mean there is a hidden penalty in the game to hinder jet engine production? When I have 5 fully functional Me262 lines, is it more likely I only get 4 or even 3 jets every day?

Without know the penalty, I would say assembly factories, rather than engine plants are the bottle neck. There are 65 assembly lines after Italy surrender but 93 engine plants. So, when I said "400 more Fw190 in the sky" in my last post, it was an overstatement because I simply don't have enough capacity to turn those engines into fighters. Since few double engine fighters are attractive enough, R&D on Me262 seems to be the best use of excess engines.

I had a massive overhaul on LW production on day 1. Here is what I want to achieve. Obviously the plan is subject to change due to Allied bombing. R&D on Ta152 starts as soon as one of the major DB engine factories is distroyed.

[Hard Sarge]

wouldn't call it a hidden penalty, anything and everything in the game has a % change of getting made, and Jets and Rockets are some of the lower %

(Frames and Parts also have a  % base to them)

also, not everything is buildable in the old game, even if it does show up in the list to build (262 will build, 152 will build)

in new game, you will have much more production Cap

[Hard Sarge]

and just in case, the 410 is one of the old games Uber weapons

[wargames]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
and just in case, the 410 is one of the old games Uber weapons

Yup! Tell me about it! In the first five days 17 pilots scored at least one kill a day on average. Almost half of them are from ZG26 gruppes which are flying Me410s. That's why I am aiming to quadruple production of Me410 in 20 days. They are robust and powerful. They can stay in the sky for a hell of long time, ideal in chewing up B17 formations piece by piece.

The trouble is, they dare not fly beyond Bremen-Essen line, otherwise they themselves become nice meal for the P47s. 8th AF has also been significantly reduced that not as many B17s are flying into Luftflotte Reich air space any more.

[Hard Sarge]

well, that is one of the reason the 51 was so nasty, the LW wasn't able to mass there Heavy Fighters outside of fighter range, once the VIIIth start to let the fighters protect the bombers by not flying with the bombers, the LW leaders knew the jig was up

(that and Dolittle letting the fighters chase the LW to the deck, and it was a whole new ballgame)

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

wouldn't call it a hidden penalty, anything and everything in the game has a % change of getting made, and Jets and Rockets are some of the lower %

(Frames and Parts also have a  % base to them)

also, not everything is buildable in the old game, even if it does show up in the list to build (262 will build, 152 will build)

in new game, you will have much more production Cap

Will there be a list provided somewhere to give some details eg exact percentages or ascending to descending order etc

Alfred

[Hard Sarge]

naw not really, don't think that would be fair, the LW didn't know, some projects took a lot of time, others worked as planned, when the war ended, the Jumo Jet was still the issue with the 262, it just wasn't good enough

any/everything that is buildable, will build, it is not like it is going to go weeks with out building anything, just you may get 9 today, instead of the ten you thought