WTF is this

[ftgcritt2]

Here I'm in the middle of a battle. And as you can see, a confederate brigade is attacking a yankee brigade roughly twice its size HEAD ON and inflicting nearly four times as much damage as it is taking. Now I know the old wives tale that one southerner could whip 4 yanks. But I would hope that for $50, you would leave that kind of nonsense out of the game. I realize that at the start of the game, the rebs have a slight advantage over the yanks in terms of quality of units. But this is kind of ridiculous. Its not a one time thing, either. This has been going on during each detailed battle.

[Gil R.]

What you're seeing has absolutely nothing to do with some sort of pro-Confederacy bias. That's simply not accurate. (Heck, all of us who worked on the game originated in northern states!)

As for what you're seeing, there could be any number of explanations for it -- better guns, better unit quality, some sort of special ability and/or brigade attributes, etc. What I would suggest doing is turning on the "Attack Report" (found in the detailed combat menu) and studying how the modifiers are affecting things. There's no better way to learn why combat turns out the way it does. (And if you're not sure how to read the reports, feel free to post some screenshots of them next time you have an exchange that you don't think makes sense.)

[GShock]

send 100 men with stones vs 10 men with M4sopmod and see you can even beat this result. [:)]

Man...FoF is a big game...plenty of time to learn don't jump to conclusions, you really need to study this game.

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: ftgcritt2

Here I'm in the middle of a battle. And as you can see, a confederate brigade is attacking a yankee brigade roughly twice its size HEAD ON and inflicting nearly four times as much damage as it is taking. Now I know the old wives tale that one southerner could whip 4 yanks. But I would hope that for $50, you would leave that kind of nonsense out of the game. I realize that at the start of the game, the rebs have a slight advantage over the yanks in terms of quality of units. But this is kind of ridiculous. Its not a one time thing, either. This has been going on during each detailed battle.

from looking at the snap

you both got a flanking bonus

one may have a much better Morale (bonus to damage)

one may have better weapons (which don't forget, Muskets up close, are really the better weapon)

one may have a lot more smoke in there hex then the other, but both are showing smoke (so loss of damage)

one may be in supply, while the other is not, not enough info shown to know for sure

one may have a much better Command set up (Corps and Div Leader) both help with damage done

I don't see any Upgrades showing, so don't think those kicked in

both looked to of had a bad die roll to start with

really, too many things that could of happened to make a call on one volly in a battle

[moose1999]

As Gil said, study the attack report.
It will tell you everything.
Seeing those numbers in a lot of firefights are not unusual at all, especially in the beginning of the game where the confederates have much higher morale than the feds.

[STUCKER868]

    I am seeing the same issue with the latest patch EXCEPT I am having that issue with Southern units!   How in the heck can any Fed unit in 1861 continue to do twice or three times (or even crazy numbers like 120 kills vs 2!) the damage to a Reb unit?   I am seeing this in EVERY detailed combat situation.  A common casualty total is like 7 Feds, 14 Rebs or 22 and 49 etc...  Fatigue is not a factor nor are weapon advantages.  This is the 1861 campaign and I have been CRUSHED at Fredricksburg for example everytime as a Reb and on just about every difficulty setting.  I have seen odd things like Stonewalls Brigade charging a pinned Yank unit in the REAR (THE REAR!) and LOSING with losses like 1,100 vs 96!!! Thats totally insane and even a brigade full of drunks could charge a unit in the rear that is PINNED to the front and crush them.  
   This never happened or RARELY did before the last patch.  The game to me is totally unplayable now and silly.  I have also noticed a substantial increase in misinterpreted command orders.   Where is the so called advantage of Southern generalship and elan?  Anyone else agree that there is an issue here? 
 
How can I be dug in with entrenchments with forts on my flanks with Southern units and an almost even number of Feds rout me off the field in 1861????  I even have combined arms with cav and arty vs. pure Fed infantry????   Something is totally amiss here.  

[jscott991]

What difficulty level are you playing on?
 
Plus, didn't defensive bonsuses get much higher in the latest patch?

[STUCKER868]

I have tried this on several difficulty settings (most recently "Captain")   This has happened to me if I am attacking or defending.  Always the same results.  I have tried this on three different campaigns as the Rebs and all the same.  I would say as a percentage in brigade vs. brigade, maybe 20% went my way.  

I have been wargaming since the mid 70's and have had my share of "bad die rolls" but to move a fresh, veteran brigade up to adjacent range and fire and cause "2" casualties and recieve "90" and this ratio happening several times in battle and in three different campaigns is needless to say depressing.

I will give it another go.. and maybe take a screen shot or two and post it.

Scott

[Gil R.]

Posting the "Attack Report" would be great, if you're posting screenshots. The description you provide is detailed, but just not enough to go on.

[Hard Sarge]

something is not right, I been fighting HW battles with this patch, and not seen anything like this (other then the bad die roll, I have seen one side get a 98 and the other get a 0, I even got a laff out of one that was 0 for both sides (think about that one, both sides fired and missed !!!!)

Smoke and Leadership sounds like the main issues, plus a major minus for movement

also what about weapons ? pointblank, a union unit with Muskets and decent leaders, can really do some damage, even more if they got BArty with them, if you got Minnies or Missisppies your going to be on the down side of the firepower side

early War, a unit with Muskets and BArty and Bulldog can be very nasty as Shock Troops, plus there are some GOOD union units out there at the start of the game, not everybody is a morale wreck

you are saying this happens in more then one battle, one game, so it got to be something else

but I would be willing to bet, it is Smoke, movement and bad rolls

(shifting your facing, can be worse then fireing from a bad angle, and smoke can easily take away 50% of your base damage, so saying, you are in a lightly smokey hex, shift your facing and fire into a heavy smoky hex, even with a decent roll, your going to take more damage then the target, and then add in all the different add ons and upgrades/skills ???)

really, turn on the battle report, and try to see why the numbers are so bad or so good

[STUCKER868]

I have been away from FOF for a few months because I purchased CofG Emperors Ed.... but that game is so far from unfinished that I decided to come back to this and try the new patch...

I am stationary and dug in smoke or no smoke and 70-80% of the time I am taking 2 or 3 times the damage. I am also seeing strange things like LONG range infantry/arty shots scoring 60-100 kills on my supply units... Thats fine (maybe) but then why is it when I fire from three or four hexes with the Jeff Davis battery of pure arty and score 29 on a line of infantry?

Another strange thing I have not mentioned is the sudden HUGE aggressivness strategically of the Union forces! On turn 2, they landed a division in South Carolina and Grant appeared with a very large army in Missouri! I was totally shocked by this sudden appearance of power this early. July/August 1861?

Another thing worth mentioning is the A.I.'s total misconception of what a river is and how to handle it. They approach and blunder around. I have yet to see the A.I. attack a river defence even close to right. During the last campaign, the New York Highlanders crossed on my right flank and were eventually trapped and crushed.

Scott

[Hard Sarge]

still say something is wrong, I have never seen dug in troops take more damage then a unit in the open, other then getting a good hit with Arty, and even then, the earthworks take more of the damage

what Diff level are you on again ?, hmmm, if your still on Capt, you are going to get a little AI bonus, but like you say you  are seeing, my last game was on Capt

really think you need to open the combat report during your next fight, to see what is really going on, all we can do out here is guess

I just finished a game, and most of my battles were in HW, and I didn't see anything like you are saying

I have had bad shots, and I have been hit by good shots, but not to the numbers you are saying, or the amount of times you say you are

[STUCKER868]

Here is a screen shot of what I am getting... I know it does not have much info but and it is not an extreme case but you can see that the Union force is in smoke and I have some cover yet...

[STUCKER868]

Here is the Jeff Davis Battery firing on a Union Inf brigade and from three hexes no less. Again not an extreme case but this is VERY common in my battles. I have tried dif settings from Ltn on up and still some odd results. I played today again with some better results but strategically where is all this Union power coming from? Whats Grant doing driving through Missouri with a huge force (100,000+) in 1861? And all of sudden I find Union divisions landing every game along the East coast. I am playing a balanced game with no extras given to the North. I don't think the Union had the balls nor the strategic elan in 1861 or even '62 to risk moving large forces away from Washington... I guess if human player wants to try this its great but I simply move in and crush each division with ease (66,000 men vs 11,000) and the Union does not retreat! I think there needs to be some tweaking here and there yet...

[Pistachio]

ORIGINAL: ftgcritt2
...Now I know the old wives tale that one southerner could whip 4 yanks. But I would hope that for $50, you would leave that kind of nonsense out of the game....

It's a trick, sir - there's TWO of 'em!

Seriously, though - there's no CS bias; however, I'm beginning to wonder if the AI isn't seriously biased. I can't win as the North, because the US must go on the offensive at some point to win. Playing as the South I always win if I defend. If I go on the offensive as the South, though, it gets really hard.

I know there's a defender bonus in detailed combat, but I think something's amiss, too. For example, playing as the South, I quickly face a huge build-up of Union troops in the Cairo area (or Missouri). But playing as the North, there's no way I can build up the same numbers. In fact, this time it's the South that has overwhelming concentration of force. And I'm not talking about fog-of-war stuff, either. I tried some attacks as both players, and both ways the AI turns out to have superior numbers.

I'm not ready to say the game is flawed, but this is not adding up for me. There's no way either side could amass numbers like this if the AI has to play by the same rules as the human.

My conclusion at this point is that the defender bonus is too high. Yes, there should be some bonus, but maybe +4 is too much.

[Gil R.]

Hard Sarge is quite correct that the best way to figure out what is going on is to use the combat reports. Admittedly, having them toggled on slows down combat a bit since the reports keep popping up, but without them all Hard Sarge or I or anyone else can do is speculate.

If there is a problem -- and it's always possible that the patch has some inadvertent new "feature" -- then this would help us to find it, and if there is no problem then the report would explain what's going on.

[GShock]

You need to turn the report on to study how the process works and this is a MUST if you want to learn the game which is ULTRA complex. When you see that it all comes to make sense you will also know how to properly use units and manage what's behind the battlefield and before the battlefield itself. It takes time... even if the manual explains everything, you NEED to turn on that report at the beginning so you learn the mechanics. Simple as that and... there's no other way the sooner the better. [;)]