japanese expansion in all directions

[Q-Ball]

This is very interesting on the pilot training! Glad to see a peek.

What happens once the pilots graduate from Flight School? Can they continue to train on-map, and how quickly/effectively does that work?

In WITP a pilot with an experience of "35" is basically useless; is that still the case in AE, or are the pilot ratings lower accross the board? Or maybe does that rating matter less than the rating in a particular skill, like "fighter" or "recon"?

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

In WITP a pilot with an experience of "35" is basically useless; is that still the case in AE, or are the pilot ratings lower accross the board?

I came back in here to ask the same thing.

I noticed from Yammy latest AAR that the average pilot skills are between 50 and 60.

Will the average experience change over the course of the game? ie. the US Navy spits them out at 40 exp after a year for the entire war, or will it increase to say 55 for the classes of 1945?

Thanks in advance

Chad

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, some changes were made in AE in the past month or so. Now when a pilot comes out of training he isnt the 80 experience Navy near-ace he was in WitP. In the Japs case he is 35 experience (army and navy both). In the allies case:

Boy, IJ sure is taking a beating. No Zero bonus and pilots far worse than the Chinese Communists (which are the best pilots BTW[8|]), for the entirity of the war? Why even bother playing them? I didn't think the pilot pool of IJ was significant enough for those 80 guys to make much difference, not enough to send them to 35 anyway. So, it's a 35 rating throughout, or does it get even 'worse' as time progresses? Anybody can answer this BTW, as YH promised to put me on the green button.

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: Czert

Is here any way to increase number of pilots in training or it is hardcoded ?

Number of pilots and XP values are definable in the editor on a year-by-year basis.

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

What happens once the pilots graduate from Flight School? Can they continue to train on-map, and how quickly/effectively does that work?

Once a pilot is assigned a unit, he is trainable same as in WitP.

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

In WITP a pilot with an experience of "35" is basically useless; is that still the case in AE, or are the pilot ratings lower accross the board? Or maybe does that rating matter less than the rating in a particular skill, like "fighter" or "recon"?

All XP ratings are 15-20 points lower than in WitP, incl. those of on-map units. In Witp:AE pilots in the 90's range are...rare. "Useless" is a relative term of course, but it's probably a good idea to give rookie pilots additional training before sending them off to see the elephant. The values above are those of the primary skill of the pilots, so secondary skills will be even lower.

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Will the average experience change over the course of the game? ie. the US Navy spits them out at 40 exp after a year for the entire war, or will it increase to say 55 for the classes of 1945?

Each year has an individual XP rating which might or might not change depending on the year and service.

[John Lansford]

Ok, I'm confused.  Every book I've read on this subject said that the Japanese continually cut down their pilots' training time as the war went on, to the point that by 1944 and later the flight school graduates barely knew how to take off and land, much less do anything else.
 
At the same time, American pilots were trained well enough to be sent into combat and be effective, thanks to post-flight school training prior to being assigned to combat squadrons.  The screen shot, however, indicates that every pilot (except the Chinese Communists for some reason) is basically 'starting even' when they come out of graduate school.
 
Does the flight school experience level increase from 35 and 40 for the US pilots as the war continues, while for Japan it decreases?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Ok, I'm confused.  Every book I've read on this subject said that the Japanese continually cut down their pilots' training time as the war went on, to the point that by 1944 and later the flight school graduates barely knew how to take off and land, much less do anything else.

If I read what YH put up there correctly, then I think the game does model that. But the way it does, you start pulling out pilots and committing them before they reach the end of the training cycle, not by degrading the experience level of fully-trained graduates. The reason Japanese pilots declined I think had more to do with cutting corners on training time, not a reduction in the quality of that training per se. They just couldn't wait to get fully trained pilots with a pressing need NOW.

That makes sense on the ratings: 15-20 exp below equivalent WITP ratings.

ON MAP TRAINING: So, it works as slowly as WITP then? Meaning, a unit set to training will pick up experience VERY slowly.

[Chad Harrison]

Thanks for the reply Timtom. Feels right to me.

[pad152]

Anyone wonder why Communist China gets the most experinced pilots (50) ?

[foliveti]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Anyone wonder why Communist China gets the most experinced pilots (50) ?

Could it be because they seem to have a replacement rate of 0 and no one thought to change their rating?

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: foliveti

ORIGINAL: pad152

Anyone wonder why Communist China gets the most experinced pilots (50) ?

Could it be because they seem to have a replacement rate of 0 and no one thought to change their rating?

Basically correct. There're no Communist Chinese pilots in the AE.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007
...
What would be the numbers for "the other side" ?
...

It will be either 'too few' or 'not enough', pick your choice. [;)]

I have to say that this looks more and more like only the more elite Japanese players will be able to give the allies any kind of game. Between the scaling down of the pilot numbers, transport numbers and a few other things I have read about...is there any fun left in the game for Japanese players? No one will have fun playing France in the game "France 1940". Yes I am a worry wart

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: rroberson
I have to say that this looks more and more like only the more elite Japanese players will be able to give the allies any kind of game. Between the scaling down of the pilot numbers, transport numbers and a few other things I have read about...is there any fun left in the game for Japanese players? No one will have fun playing France in the game "France 1940". Yes I am a worry wart

Yes, you are. [;)]

More seriously, wait until you play it. There are many changes that also benefit the Japanese player - my sense overall is that the balance is about the same. However, we've also specifically included a second grand campaign scenario that gives the Japanese some more advantages.

Regards,

- Erik

[DuckofTindalos]

We do have an enhanced Japan scen as well, with more of everything for the Jap player.

[Graycompany]

I don't think having a more realistic Order of Battle, and better air and land system coupled with realistic shipping, will make the game unfun, for the Japanesse player.

They really only had a good 6 months, and with hindsight a player knows what mistakes were made, and will try an avoid these (ie midway). I dont think you can "Win" as the japanesse, although can win the game, perhpas by points or lasting to a certain point, the game says you win.

[John 3rd]

Let ME take a crack at this!  Banzai--Baby--BANZAI!!!
 

[kfmiller41]

Anyone who has read any history of the war in the pacific knows Japan can't win (except of course all my opponents who play Japan[:D]) but you can still do much better than history and it is fun trying to do that, at least for me and thats why I play. Never started a game as Japan thinking "well can't wait to hang my flag in San Francisco Harbor[X(]". Nah just not gonna happen[:-]

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ON MAP TRAINING: So, it works as slowly as WITP then? Meaning, a unit set to training will pick up experience VERY slowly.

This part of the code is unchanged, AFAIK. It's worth noting that Allied units usually trained 4-6 months or more - I can think of a couple which trained for over 12 months - prior to deploying into combat. The IJNAF figured a rookie needed a further years training upon joining a unit before he could be considered fully baked.

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: foliveti

ORIGINAL: pad152

Anyone wonder why Communist China gets the most experinced pilots (50) ?

Could it be because they seem to have a replacement rate of 0 and no one thought to change their rating?

Basically correct. There're no Communist Chinese pilots in the AE.

Actually there's no ChiCom pilot field in the editor...not that it makes any practical difference.

ORIGINAL: rroberson

Between the scaling down of the pilot numbers, transport numbers and a few other things I have read about...is there any fun left in the game for Japanese players?

If you by "scaling down of the pilot numbers" are refering to the XP values, it might well be that this turns out to be to the Japanese players advantage in the long run since they're already in effect quite low in WitP. As for the transports, it's not that there's fewer of them - just that a particular a/c currently becomes available later than in WitP. If that's a dealbreaker, I'm sure someone will mod an alternative soon enough [:)]

Having all your carriers sunk is still hilarious. Promise.

[Halsey]

ORIGINAL: mark24

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, some changes were made in AE in the past month or so. Now when a pilot comes out of training he isnt the 80 experience Navy near-ace he was in WitP. In the Japs case he is 35 experience (army and navy both).

So pilots reaching squadrons from the pool are more a danger to my war effort than the enemies? How is this resolved? What happens when my USN Wildcat squadrons start filling up with nuggets that can't tell left from right? Do we have to train units now as soon as they arrive?

Mark

I've found that the specialized pilot training is more important than overall skill level.[;)]

For instance, I currently have two Canadian Kittyhawk Sqdrns in Burma 6/42.
Overall exp is only 55-60, but their air to air skills are 80+.
Some are 99 now, with combat exp.

You can now specialize your airgroups to the missions you want them to perform.
I recommend starting your specialized airgroup training ASAP.[;)]

This goes for both sides.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

is there any fun left in the game for Japanese players? No one will have fun playing France in the game "France 1940". Yes I am a worry wart

I've been playing wargames for longer than most forum members have been alive - and I usually wind up playing the side no one else wants to play - because I just like to play. So I play the Italians - or the French in 1940 - or the Russians in 1941 - and I love it! And if I win - then oh boy - do I have the bragging rights!!! [:D]

So far I've only been able to play the Japanese in WITP PBEM campaign games. I've also played both sides in AE testing. I think both sides are harder. Maybe the Allies in AE are as hard as the Japanese in WITP and the Japanese are harder still. But - I do not think even the AE team has enough data to say for sure how much or whether - the PBEM play balance has shifted. I think we will have to get the game out there - and let the really imaginative players (which I am not - being too constrained by historical thoughts) take a shot at it. I think taking out Russia or India will be a lot tougher - but my Japanese opponent invaded Oz and seemed to be making it stick through late 42 - and I diverted all the good Aussie units to Oz to help defend - and still I was not kicking him out.

I will say that all players should expect a learning curve. AE is not WITP - and the strategies and tactics that work in WITP will probably not work in AE - so do not assume they will. Do not play the same old WITP game in AE - try to understand the fundemental differences - like the new importance of ports and naval support units - and play accordingly. Think out of the box - and you will be more likely to be successful. Those who play the same old game - will likely lose regardless of which side they play.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: rroberson

is there any fun left in the game for Japanese players? No one will have fun playing France in the game "France 1940". Yes I am a worry wart

I've been playing wargames for longer than most forum members have been alive - and I usually wind up playing the side no one else wants to play - because I just like to play. So I play the Italians - or the French in 1940 - or the Russians in 1941 - and I love it! And if I win - then oh boy - do I have the bragging rights!!! [:D]

So far I've only been able to play the Japanese in WITP PBEM campaign games. I've also played both sides in AE testing. I think both sides are harder. Maybe the Allies in AE are as hard as the Japanese in WITP and the Japanese are harder still. But - I do not think even the AE team has enough data to say for sure how much or whether - the PBEM play balance has shifted. I think we will have to get the game out there - and let the really imaginative players (which I am not - being too constrained by historical thoughts) take a shot at it. I think taking out Russia or India will be a lot tougher - but my Japanese opponent invaded Oz and seemed to be making it stick through late 42 - and I diverted all the good Aussie units to Oz to help defend - and still I was not kicking him out.

I will say that all players should expect a learning curve. AE is not WITP - and the strategies and tactics that work in WITP will probably not work in AE - so do not assume they will. Do not play the same old WITP game in AE - try to understand the fundemental differences - like the new importance of ports and naval support units - and play accordingly. Think out of the box - and you will be more likely to be successful. Those who play the same old game - will likely lose regardless of which side they play.

I would say that is my concern as 99 percent of the games that I have played WITP PBEM I have been the Japanese...It seems the bulk of PBEMers are Japanese-phobic[:D]. I more then understand that I will lose each and every game either through my typical boneheaded moves or through the fact that it was in fact a national banzai charge that led them to war. I would still, like to be able to keep the game interesting for my opponents...I see a lot of drive towards making things more realistic and I do support that, but I also fully understood the original design of the game by making things a bit more even for the two players so you could give you opponent a game as the Japanese (and I wont deny the designers probably went too far in the other direction).

I am a worry wart...because I invest an awful lot of hours in each of my games...

Worry not you won't lose a sale at least from me. I am patiently waiting for Erik to open the download so I can get my hands on this.