Fire command - show of hands?

[MarkShot]

Does anyone actually use this command in RDOA/HTTR/COTA? If so, for what?

I've never used it myself and my contention is that it confuses noobs who are used to games that heavily rely on player targeting.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.

[jhdeerslayer]

Never used it myself IIRC correctly and always wondered myself under what circumstances it was used.

[James Sterrett]

I've never used it and I have seen it confuse my students! [:)]

[Tzar007]

I have used it a couple of time in HTTR in some specific situations (let's say desperate situations like when I was encircled) when I felt I was too weak to think about assaulting. I usually used that order with long range Flak or AT guns units with clear LOS which could fire from far enough. I did find it useful at that time to pin down advancing enemy units, but you need to think about it otherwise you won't use it.

In COTA, I might have used it in some of the Crete scenarios, but probably very seldom. A clear LOS over a long distance is usually an oxymoron in the Greece mainland, so I'm pretty sure I never used the Fire command in these scenarios. With the kind of ground the Ardennes is, I suspect it won't be of much use in BFTB.

[JudgeDredd]

I've used it a few times, but it kind of feels redundant. The AI does a good job of targeting the most menacing enemy.
 
I've never really read if there are any benefits in using it.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

This is one of the details of AA that makes me wonder what's going on "under the hood" of the game. What's a little scary is that Markshot doesn't completely understand it!

I use that command to try and coax units into focusing their fire on units that I particularly want to destroy. However, I notice that units which I take control of with a FIRE command will often still fire at targets other than the one which I have targeted. Other times, they do nothing at all.

However, what REALLY undermines FIRE as a game command/function is the ability of a target unit to move out from under it. This may just be a matter of the red tracer graphic not updating to the location of where the unit has moved,  but it really appears as though units continue to FIRE at what's now a vacated space, as can similarly occur with INDIRECT FIRE.

And this is yet another example of why I'm not sure about micro-managing units. Apart from placing units, perhaps even individually, in the right place at the right time, I'm not sure that attempting to override some of these game functions actually works. The obvious exception to my diffidence in this regard are massed-artillery barrages that can cause key enemy units to surrender without an enemy in sight.

Darned if I don't feel as though the more that I learn about these games, the less that I know! [;)]

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[MarkShot]

PoE,

Your questions answered in the Mini-Guide Thread. Thanks.

[06 Maestro]

I seldom use it with line units, but still find it useful. There is a side benefit to having that order; when you issue it to a unit/HQ it will stop its current mission/orders. This can come in handy sometimes.

I make good use of the fire order when arty has a direct line of site. Not so much for any added effect, but to hammer units which are becoming a major threat to the gun positions.

On a somewhat related subject I would make a rough estimate that about 25% of bombard missions are controlled directly by myself. In some scenarios with reduced arty ammo I may triple that amount of micro management.

[MarkShot]

Aargh! A self confession of an exploit! I am on a campaign this release that exploits be closed or it is time for me to publish my MarkShot's Iron Man Rules for BFTB. (Coming AAR will conform to Iron Man Rules.)

Thanks for that one. I was unaware of it.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Aargh! A self confession of an exploit! I am on a campaign this release that exploits be closed or it is time for me to publish my MarkShot's Iron Man Rules for BFTB. (Coming AAR will conform to Iron Man Rules.)

[;)]Well, it's not really a bad exploit. Plans need to change once in a while. The time from that realization to a new plan being figured out should not be used going down a bad path.[;)]

Thanks for that one. I was unaware of it.

I stumbled upon this shortly after I first started playing CotA. I had a tendency to change my mind about my gret plans and found it tedious to keep hitting the delete key to back up. The first time I noticed that "fire" did the trick, it stuck in the noggin.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Your questions answered in the Mini-Guide Thread.

Which mini-guide [&:]

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
There is a side benefit to having that order; when you issue it to a unit/HQ it will stop its current mission/orders. This can come in handy sometimes.

You can also "rope" a group of units and create the same result for all of them.

[Mark71]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Your questions answered in the Mini-Guide Thread.

Which mini-guide [&:]

check the top message in the BFTB forum.

[MarkShot]

Ha ha ... the BFTB Mini-Guide. The HTTR and COTA are closed (not in a thread sense, but I won't be adding new content). Even if new HTTR and COTA questions come up, I will probably answer them in the BFTB guide.

[Chad Harrison]

As for the original question, I never use it. I would use it though if it could snap to a unit. In other words, order unit A to continue to attack unit B.

[MarkShot]

I see your point, but everything in the system focused on a map location and NOT other units.

This is why I don't like the fire command. Gamers coming from other systems think that they must managing targeting. Gamers are often confused by the fact that they are targeting a location (and only implicitly targeting what enemy might or might not be there).

[GoodGuy]

I use to issue the fire command to units in situations where avoiding a local enemy breakthrough may influence the outcome of the entire operation. I don't know if I'm just seeing things, and i surely don't know what's under the hood, but it seems like using the fire command makes a difference at times, which is sometimes odd, though.

Well, odd in in a way that a given unit should behave according to the aggro/fire rate settings determined by the user, but where the particular unit won't fire like a group of madmen (if set to DEFEND, for example), unless i use the fire command.

Example: HTTR, Nijmegen scenario, AT guns or INF guns set up as a chain of defensive perimeters along the main road next to the river leading up north to downtown Nijmegen:

Let's say enemy tanks approach these positions, they then will have to deal with my AT/gun units, and in situations where these enemy tanks make it to a spot near one of my units, I then order the unit to fire at the tank unit (with max aggro/ROF settings). This will make my unit fire AT rounds more often (red tracers), as opposed to cases where I had issued a defend order using the same aggro/ROF settings.
Another observation I made is, that units with a defend task would fire with reduced ROF (or sometimes rarely fire or not fire at all, although the ROF had been set to MAX), but they would keep up the fight longer than the units conducting a fire task in a similar situation, means they would retreat/route later.

It seems like the "fire"-units tend to retreat earlier, but they inflict (more) notable casualties (sometimes 25-50%) among the enemy tank units, a vital performance gain influencing the outcome of the operation in the sector.

Someone mentioned in this thread that it's usually not neccessary to use the FIRE command in COTA, due to the nature of the greek terrain (LOF/FOV conditions), I'd second that.

[MarkShot]

Well, it doesn't look like Fire will be going away.

Actually, I would like if I get some time to write a most common list of noob mistakes for CmdOps. Which would include the misconception that targeting is any way required to play.

Maybe MarkShot's Most Common Noob Mistakes (as last time I did the Top Tips)

[James Sterrett]

The #1 error I see is: Ordering each unit on the map individually and overloading the highest on-map HQ. (I make my students play at maximum orders delay. Once they see the light, they generally are quite pleased by the notion of a game that actively punishes micromanagement. [:)] )

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Maybe MarkShot's Most Common Noob Mistakes (as last time I did the Top Tips)

Well, I'd name it "Dos and Don'ts for New Players", as you shouldn't refer to new customers with the word "noob", that's counterproductive (j/k) - from a PR/marketing POV -, and it may be offensive [;)] (j/k)

(j/k = just kidding).