japanese expansion in all directions

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

The biggest issue I see "slowing" down the Japanese run through DEI is you have to conquer each and every base (much like the PI ((which I still haven't done 9/42))) because there is no government or commanding general to surrender all allied forces. That in itself slows your tempo down as you have to root the enemy out of each base.

its not necessary to conquor each and every base. (and yes, there are alot more of them) As long as you nab those bases that both enhance your sea and air control as well as provide staging points for further operations, you'll be fine. The superfluous/small bases can be converted over at the player's leasure using minimal forces.

While a good Allied player can exploit some options, he will by and large be busy building up his own network. As a certified non-micromanager who doesn't have 6 hours to spend per turn....its taken me all the way up to aug42 in my current test game to build up the infrastructure in the SoPac and SWPac to levels where i deem them comfortable to support a sustained effort........including those big fuel hog battleships. It was a slow and tedious process though, esp before the first big AK/TK reinforcements arrive. You have to do alot of gathering of merchants and then start the long slow process of shipping fuel, supply and personell to distant current and future theaters.

Brady has demonstrated some ways in which to quickly go on the offensive in the Central Pacific as Allies...but only at the expense of compromising defense of exisiting assets. Against a human player (this was against the AI), it would be far more riske'

[Andy Mac]

Yeah and I tightened up the AI to give anyone who tries it again a nasty shock

[pad152]

I've always enjoyed playing Japan but in AE, the resource requirements (100K per day starting on day one) plus oil, scare me!!! I don't think I've ever moved more than 200K-250K of resources in a month in WITP. Yes there was way too much in WITP but, now I wonder in AE playing Japan will be too much and only for the truly die-hard player.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: pad152

I've always enjoyed playing Japan but in AE, the resource requirements (100K per day starting on day one) plus oil, scare me!!! I don't think I've ever moved more than 200K-250K of resources in a month in WITP. Yes there was way too much in WITP but, now I wonder in AE playing Japan will be too much and only for the truly die-hard player.

Actually you dont need a drop of oil. You need FUEL.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

AE has this previously only ever allied player seriously considering playing Japan - I spent so much time getting the Japanese AI to work that its sorta go me interested and hooked. So its likely there wil be at least two of us playing Japan !!!!

Hi Andy,

From another post speaking of first turn settings Ive always thought a good way to create a more challenging AI for this game would be to give it similiar turn settings that most humans use such as 100% search (for floatplanes) or 100% naval attack (for bombers/torpedo planes) etc... Was this ever considered in improving the AI or does the AI still have the same old settings?

[Grotius]

I am also expecting someone else to do an AE AI file so I can actually play against the AI

I may make one, eventually. But I'm hoping AI experts like Herwin will make some interesting AI mods.

give it similiar turn settings that most humans use such as 100% search (for floatplanes) or 100% naval attack (for bombers/torpedo planes)

Hmm, I don't always put floatplanes on 100% search, if say I'm concerned about operational losses in a low-threat zone. And I sometimes assign 10%-20% of a naval bomber squadron to naval search.

That said, one item on my wishlist is that pilots rotate more. In stock, it seems the same 60% fly CAP every day, instead of switching off to give the tired guys rest. The advantage of this system is that the computer tends to assign the most-experienced pilots to fly every day. The disadvantage is that those guys get tired. Is this addressed at all in AE? I'm guessing not, as it could become a micromanagement nightmare. Maybe some future patch could design a "pitching rotation" algorithm like those used in baseball sims -- an option to rest any pilot who is over 10% fatigue, say.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

If an afb lovefest is defined as a more accurate map, oob, air and asw model count me in. For the sake of continuity I'll ignore the 4e question.

Don't know how it could be more one-sided than history. History was an afb lovefest. Midway rarely happens in the game so IJA/IJN expansion doesn't halt in 6/42 unlike WitP.

Yes, all desire that first sentence AFB or JFB, but the 2nd sentence I've no idea what continuity has to do with anything, unless you mean that it hasn't been touched, and that touching it would bother the AE release timeline. I wasn't aware that 6/42 just automatically put IJ into the doldrums. I sure wouldn't anticipate that in my own case with WITP, unless of course the 4E's were that much of a problem. You would think they would be a major problem, but it depends on whether the allies use them for anti-shipping or not.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

ORIGINAL: rroberson





I would say that is my concern as 99 percent of the games that I have played WITP PBEM I have been the Japanese...It seems the bulk of PBEMers are Japanese-phobic[:D]. I more then understand that I will lose each and every game either through my typical boneheaded moves or through the fact that it was in fact a national banzai charge that led them to war. I would still, like to be able to keep the game interesting for my opponents...I see a lot of drive towards making things more realistic and I do support that, but I also fully understood the original design of the game by making things a bit more even for the two players so you could give you opponent a game as the Japanese (and I wont deny the designers probably went too far in the other direction).

I am a worry wart...because I invest an awful lot of hours in each of my games...

Worry not you won't lose a sale at least from me. I am patiently waiting for Erik to open the download so I can get my hands on this.

So what's the point in pre-sale of worrying if you are deadset on buying it? Instead, you ought to worry that the game has become little more than an AFB lovefest and that you won't even enjoy much of the first year. I posed the question before, which naturally everybody ignored, that since the Zero bonus was gone, had the 4E's lost their great anti-shipping ability. Now you have 35 pilots instead of 80's, what's not to worry about? Sounds like an awfuly one-sided game, more one-sided than history anyway.

This whole issue of the IJ pilots seems very unclear anyway. YH spoke of 80 pilots and 35's, as though the system is the same, whereas a lot of other people seem to think IJ has a unique training school the other nations don't have, where if left in long enough you could get 80 pilots. It sounds like it's a sub-system of the WITP system, but I would hope at game start, if in fact this isn't an illusion, that the fair thing happens and you already have pilots ready to come out of that school which if you pull them out are 80 ranked (there were 100 of these starting out in WITP).

That would be the point of worrying [:D]. If the game is about to become so inbalanced that the Japenese PBEM player gets even less of a high point then WITP (or historically) then it is about to become even harder to find Japanese players online who are willing to subject themselves to two or three years of having their asses handed to them. That doesnt sound like a lot of fun [;)]

I buy every pacific war game I can get my hands on to support companies willing to take a chance in an often ignored theatre of world war 2....in that it is an automatic sale for me.

Oh I see, but my criteria is I shall not buy rubbish, right theatre or not, because that only encourages more rubbish.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: rroberson

The biggest issue I see "slowing" down the Japanese run through DEI is you have to conquer each and every base (much like the PI ((which I still haven't done 9/42))) because there is no government or commanding general to surrender all allied forces. That in itself slows your tempo down as you have to root the enemy out of each base.

its not necessary to conquor each and every base. (and yes, there are alot more of them) As long as you nab those bases that both enhance your sea and air control as well as provide staging points for further operations, you'll be fine. The superfluous/small bases can be converted over at the player's leasure using minimal forces.

While a good Allied player can exploit some options, he will by and large be busy building up his own network. As a certified non-micromanager who doesn't have 6 hours to spend per turn....its taken me all the way up to aug42 in my current test game to build up the infrastructure in the SoPac and SWPac to levels where i deem them comfortable to support a sustained effort........including those big fuel hog battleships. It was a slow and tedious process though, esp before the first big AK/TK reinforcements arrive. You have to do alot of gathering of merchants and then start the long slow process of shipping fuel, supply and personell to distant current and future theaters.

Brady has demonstrated some ways in which to quickly go on the offensive in the Central Pacific as Allies...but only at the expense of compromising defense of exisiting assets. Against a human player (this was against the AI), it would be far more riske'

No but it is necessary to knock out those ones with pesky Dutch and Brit troops who survive the initial onslaught and still base some air units. Unless AE has really changed the way air works, Im sure the dirty tricks department will move their air around to all those little hot spots to harass you.

At rate, I trust what you guys are saying...I say bring it on and let me decide if I will be going forward with AE or continue to slog along with Vanilla. [:D]

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Many players, including myself, felt like one of the major weaknesses of WITP was the unrealistic tempo of operations. The Japanese players created uber-hyper first turns and tried to conquer half the world by May of 1942. Then the allied counterattack was also with too rapid a tempo. The Japamese had to hit hard and fast because the Allies would hit back hard and fast.

It sounds to me like the AE team has really tried to develop a game with a more realistic tempo. I expect the Japanese expansion to be slower, but the allied ability to counter the Japanese will develop slower as well. I think this is a huge improvement and I am looking forward to a game with a more realistic tempo of operations.

I think the allies were slow in conquering IJ, but then we shouldn't have people able to take it by '43 either.

[John Lansford]

I doubt that the AE AI will behave like the WitP AI is in my current game.  It's already 6/42 and I still control Balikpapan, Ambroina and Sorong, although the former base is being bombed heavily from Tawi Tawi.  It tried a feeble amphibious landing at Balikpapan several months ago but only an armored unit made it ashore, and my PT boats sank all the AK's trying to dump supply on them.  The AI has Tarakan but since it's within bomber range of Balikpapan and the base adjacent to it, my Martin crews are getting plenty of experience bombing the ships there with 250 lb bombs.  I may rotate them out of there and replace them with some Beauforts out of Timor to see what happens...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007

Meaning the US have already 13000 Pilots in the pool ?

What would be the numbers for "the other side" ?

Thanks for all the work and this great AAR !

Thats a secret [:D]

(3900 in the pool and about 350 a month in the pipe)

Its safe to say the allies wont be running out of pilots. Jap air production right now is about equal to their current production. Expansion of the aircraft industry at all or even R&D factories coming on-line will out-pace pilot replacements nearly from the start. And there is no way to get "free pilots" (like WitP) in AE.

and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

[Czert3]

Using editor for seting of numbers of trainess is one way, but will be here any chance for incresing of training capacity direcly in game ? And if no why ? Coding, reality, balancing ?

[n01487477]

and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

Good questions Castor, particularly since there have been a number of similar sentiments in other threads about game balance issues related to all areas from production, (which hasn't been fully tested beyond 6 months according to one thread) supply consumption for building more, from engines to airframes and now pilots...

Even J.Wilkerson admits that there isn't a strong contingent of JFB's on the team, which makes me a bit paranoid, that I'll just be upgrading to satisfy the ego of my future Allied PBEM opponent. We all know the Allies will eventually succeed, and the journey is more important than the destination, but this is a fun game right? Not a journey in masochism.

Maybe I'm just being ridiculous, please confirm this ... And thanks to the editor all these issues can be resolved anyway.

But my other question is, why wasn't someone like Mike Solli or another person with a good background in the subtleties of the Japanese economy employed to look at these issues and do rigorous testing, more than anything else logistics are or should be one of the primary concerns of the Japanese player...

I appreciate all the work that has gone into this upgrade, I'll just have to wait, and hope that my fears are unconfirmed & that there are nuggets for the Japanese player. Skillful play should not be nobbled by a system skewed so far in one sides favour, even if this reflects the reality of the 2nd WW.

There has always been a favorable bias in the game to the Allies, I'll live with that, but not to the point where games will have to be quit in late '42, cause the economic/pilot model makes it untenable.

Rant over, sorry it has been a long day.

[Kaletsch2007]

Just my 50cent.
I really look forward to play the most challenging War Game, I have seen so far. It seems to me, that finaly found a game that will cost all you are willing to spend.
It is not anymore all about knowing the game mechanics. You overcomited your troops, you took the risks to high, you will pay for it !!!
Sure, I am surprised by the number of pilots for Japan, but I will take it in account and will use them wisely (hope so) [:)]
I know people will disagree, but I like the think, that it will take me 2 hours per turn to manage everthing.
As I am confident the team did the best they could, to get the right figures, it is now up to me, to let my opp pay as much as possible, if he wants to attack.
Really looking forward to focus my mind on planning and executing an operation, not just "playing".
For me WitP (even I am addicted to it !!!) is to simple.
 
As I said, just my opinion.
Regards and hoping to launch my torpedos soon [&o]

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007

Meaning the US have already 13000 Pilots in the pool ?

What would be the numbers for "the other side" ?

Thanks for all the work and this great AAR !

Thats a secret [:D]

(3900 in the pool and about 350 a month in the pipe)

Its safe to say the allies wont be running out of pilots. Jap air production right now is about equal to their current production. Expansion of the aircraft industry at all or even R&D factories coming on-line will out-pace pilot replacements nearly from the start. And there is no way to get "free pilots" (like WitP) in AE.

and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

Castor, you should not expect that everything works the same in the AE as it did in WITP. Your experience from WITP is simply not applicable to the AE. There are too many fundamental differences between both games. Air combat, production, pilot training etc. simply work ... different.

Try to think about the AE as a new game.

[ChickenOfTheSea]

Hmmm ..... It appears that the Japanese cannot afford to frivolously waste ships, planes, and trained pilots, because they can't produce as many as the Allies can. That sounds awfully historical to me. And that is coming from someone who enjoys the challenge of playing the Japanese. I don't see the problem.

There will be mods like Nemo's for those who want a more balanced game.

[Andy Mac]

Don't forget with Ubercap being mostly neutered now you don't lose as many pilots.
 
You really need to actually play the game it has changed fundamentally in so many ways.
 
Its tighter and slower paced for both sides throughout.
 
Oh and p.s. the enhanced japan scenario has more/better trained pilots for the Japanese in the pool and over the first few years of war.
 
 

[Andy Mac]

p.s also be aware the editor is so ludicrously easy to use that even if you don't want to play the 'new' stock scenario or the new 'enhanced' japan scenario then you can easily edit it to make fantasy war in the pacific.
 
 

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger




Thats a secret [:D]

(3900 in the pool and about 350 a month in the pipe)

Its safe to say the allies wont be running out of pilots. Jap air production right now is about equal to their current production. Expansion of the aircraft industry at all or even R&D factories coming on-line will out-pace pilot replacements nearly from the start. And there is no way to get "free pilots" (like WitP) in AE.

and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

Castor, you should not expect that everything works the same in the AE as it did in WITP. Your experience from WITP is simply not applicable to the AE. There are too many fundamental differences between both games. Air combat, production, pilot training etc. simply work ... different.

Try to think about the AE as a new game.

I don't get the sense he expects it to work like AE. He like me worries that we will be spending a couple of years of our gaming life having our teeth kicked down our throat by allied players because AE is ultra realistic...which means its not really much of a "game". While I more then agree with a lot of the changes I have seen, I understood why the original developers did some of the things they did to balance the two sides for the "fun" factor.