AE Land and AI Issues [OUTDATED]

[Dili]

Would be possible to put torpedos batterie as coastal defense weapons or they will only work in ships/airplanes?

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: HistoryGuy

Coast Artillery Battalion, Separate, Machinegun, Anti-aircraft, Mobile

Headquarters and Headquarters Battery
four firing batteries (x12 .50-caliber MG each)
Medical detachment
Chaplain

Wartime authorized strength: 33 officers and 703 enlisted (including 87 cadre)

armament:

forty eight .50-caliber MGs
68 M1911A1 pistols
23 BARs
621 M1903 Springfields

Vehicles:
1 Ambulance
1 5-passenger sedan
seven motorcycles
nineteen 1/2 ton pickups
ten 1/2 command and reconnaissance cars
117 (!!) 1-1/2 ton trucks

Are these AE devices?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Would be possible to put torpedos batterie as coastal defense weapons or they will only work in ships/airplanes?

I think so.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: HistoryGuy

Coast Artillery Battalion, Separate, Machinegun, Anti-aircraft, Mobile

Headquarters and Headquarters Battery
four firing batteries (x12 .50-caliber MG each)
Medical detachment
Chaplain

Wartime authorized strength: 33 officers and 703 enlisted (including 87 cadre)

armament:

forty eight .50-caliber MGs
68 M1911A1 pistols
23 BARs
621 M1903 Springfields

Vehicles:
1 Ambulance
1 5-passenger sedan
seven motorcycles
nineteen 1/2 ton pickups
ten 1/2 command and reconnaissance cars
117 (!!) 1-1/2 ton trucks

Are these AE devices?

No

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: HistoryGuy

Coast Artillery Battalion, Separate, Machinegun, Anti-aircraft, Mobile

Headquarters and Headquarters Battery
four firing batteries (x12 .50-caliber MG each)
Medical detachment
Chaplain

Wartime authorized strength: 33 officers and 703 enlisted (including 87 cadre)

armament:

forty eight .50-caliber MGs
68 M1911A1 pistols
23 BARs
621 M1903 Springfields

Vehicles:
1 Ambulance
1 5-passenger sedan
seven motorcycles
nineteen 1/2 ton pickups
ten 1/2 command and reconnaissance cars
117 (!!) 1-1/2 ton trucks

Are these AE devices?

No

Ummm... in abstract form ...Motorized Support?

[Dili]

Thanks Don.

[TulliusDetritus]

Sorry if this was asked (and answered) before.

In AE some divisions will be broken (from what I have seen in some screenshots). And like in UV we have the historical numbered regiments. Then I know that if you combine these divisions, when you divide them again you will have the A / B / C thing.

My question is: will all the divisions appear in the game broken and with their historical numbered regiments? Or just some of them?

Thanks in advance [:)]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Sorry if this was asked (and answered) before.

In AE some divisions will be broken (from what I have seen in some screenshots). And like in UV we have the historical numbered regiments. Then I know that if you combine these divisions, when you divide them again you will have the A / B / C thing.

My question is: will all the divisions appear in the game broken and with their historical numbered regiments? Or just some of them?

Thanks in advance [:)]

Just some...primarily early in the game.

[Dili]

I have a bunch of British AA regiments that were attached, detached again attached, independent etc... For the proposes of how the game handles air attacks against LCU's what is better, to have Brigades/Divisions without organic AA Guns and have independent AA Regiments to put where we wish or make them organic?

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Dili

I have a bunch of British AA regiments that were attached, detached again attached, independent etc... For the proposes of how the game handles air attacks against LCU's what is better, to have Brigades/Divisions without organic AA Guns and have independent AA Regiments to put where we wish or make them organic?

Operationally, they were deployed where they were needed.

[Dili]

My question is about game mechanics, i think have been some change in that. If it is possible to attack a specific LCU, would an AA regiment still fire even if that Regiment has light weapons?

[John Lansford]

The "fixed" CD gun positions defending Oahu were on the southern or western approaches because those were the only possible amphibious landing sites.  The North Shore is a surfing Mecca because of the gigantic waves that develop there; no sane invasion commander would attempt a landing in that kind of surf.  I can see some mobile batteries covering the smallish bays but that would be about it; any serious invasion would have to attempt landing on a south or west facing beach, right into the teeth of the defense.
 
It does seem that the Manila Bay area was probably the heaviest defended location in the Pacific prior to the war beginning.  Watching a 14" disappearing gun operate was no doubt an awesome experience...

[Chad Harrison]

From a long, long time ago in this thread I brought out an annoying issue from vanilla WitP:

2. It was mentioned earlier, but I think it would make a lot more sense for an individual squad type to simply 'upgrade' to a new unit type rather than have to have the new squad type built. You are not replacing the men, only getting them new(er) weapons. I can not imagine that the US in 1944 had a hard time getting the existing marine squads newer weapons, flamethrowers, bazookas, ect. The real strain was for actual marines, not their personal, squad/platoon equipment. In the current system (as far as I understand it correctly), you need to replace existing Marine 41 Squads with Marine 44 Squads. The device built squads logically represent replacing total lost units; replacing both the men (limited) and the equipment (not limited). This would obviously not apply to devise driven equipment like artillery, AAA, tanks, ect.

Just did some quick numbers all based on Stock, Scenario 15 to prove my point. Obviously all these values and dates are going to change w/ AE, but if left unchanged, the problem will still exist.

The last version of the USMC Rifle and Engineer Squads show up in December of 1943 (again this is stock). If you assume that both the 5th and 6th Marine Divisions which arrive after that point use the most current squad types, that means that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Marine Divisions will need to upgrade to the new squad types. Stock TO&E puts a full strength Marine division at 297 rifle and 121 engineer squads. The build rate for Dec 43 Marine rifle squad is 54, and for Dec 43 Marine Engineer squad is 21.

That means that it will take 23 MONTHS TO UPDATE THE CURRENT MARINE DIVISIONS TO THE NEW TYPE!!! And this is assuming no losses during this time. They will all complete upgrading right before the war ends.

Math - 4 Marine divisions
297 Rifle * 4 = 1188 rifle squads / 54 rifle squads/month = 22 months
121 Engineer * 4 = 484 engineer squads / 21 engineer squads/month = 23 months

As I stated above, that does not make sense. This makes sense if you were rebuilding four full strength Marine divisions. But all you are doing is issuing new weapons, not new men. This is obviously not the case with devise driven material such as tanks, AAA guns, CD guns, artillery and so on.

Marines were limited. Thier small arms were not.

Andy replied:

2. I agree its one of the solutions we are playing with but it depends on prioritisation

Now, I cant find it anymore, but about a year later it was stated that this in affect had made the cut for AE. My understanding is that in AE when a squad upgrades, the 'old' squad device type is returned to the pool, but upgraded to the newer model.

In other words, you finally get enough USMC Squads to upgrade the 1st Marine Division to the 1943 squad from the 1941 squad. In vanilla, all those 1941 squads would just go back to the pool and be useless. My understanding is that in AE, those 1941 squads would return to the pool, and then upgrade to 1943 types. So in theory, the next day, the 2nd Marine Division would also be able to upgrade.

Did this make the final cut?

Thanks in advance

Chad

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

From a long, long time ago in this thread I brought out an annoying issue from vanilla WitP:

2. It was mentioned earlier, but I think it would make a lot more sense for an individual squad type to simply 'upgrade' to a new unit type rather than have to have the new squad type built. You are not replacing the men, only getting them new(er) weapons. I can not imagine that the US in 1944 had a hard time getting the existing marine squads newer weapons, flamethrowers, bazookas, ect. The real strain was for actual marines, not their personal, squad/platoon equipment. In the current system (as far as I understand it correctly), you need to replace existing Marine 41 Squads with Marine 44 Squads. The device built squads logically represent replacing total lost units; replacing both the men (limited) and the equipment (not limited). This would obviously not apply to devise driven equipment like artillery, AAA, tanks, ect.

Just did some quick numbers all based on Stock, Scenario 15 to prove my point. Obviously all these values and dates are going to change w/ AE, but if left unchanged, the problem will still exist.

The last version of the USMC Rifle and Engineer Squads show up in December of 1943 (again this is stock). If you assume that both the 5th and 6th Marine Divisions which arrive after that point use the most current squad types, that means that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Marine Divisions will need to upgrade to the new squad types. Stock TO&E puts a full strength Marine division at 297 rifle and 121 engineer squads. The build rate for Dec 43 Marine rifle squad is 54, and for Dec 43 Marine Engineer squad is 21.

That means that it will take 23 MONTHS TO UPDATE THE CURRENT MARINE DIVISIONS TO THE NEW TYPE!!! And this is assuming no losses during this time. They will all complete upgrading right before the war ends.

Math - 4 Marine divisions
297 Rifle * 4 = 1188 rifle squads / 54 rifle squads/month = 22 months
121 Engineer * 4 = 484 engineer squads / 21 engineer squads/month = 23 months

As I stated above, that does not make sense. This makes sense if you were rebuilding four full strength Marine divisions. But all you are doing is issuing new weapons, not new men. This is obviously not the case with devise driven material such as tanks, AAA guns, CD guns, artillery and so on.

Marines were limited. Thier small arms were not.

Andy replied:

2. I agree its one of the solutions we are playing with but it depends on prioritisation

Now, I cant find it anymore, but about a year later it was stated that this in affect had made the cut for AE. My understanding is that in AE when a squad upgrades, the 'old' squad device type is returned to the pool, but upgraded to the newer model.

In other words, you finally get enough USMC Squads to upgrade the 1st Marine Division to the 1943 squad from the 1941 squad. In vanilla, all those 1941 squads would just go back to the pool and be useless. My understanding is that in AE, those 1941 squads would return to the pool, and then upgrade to 1943 types. So in theory, the next day, the 2nd Marine Division would also be able to upgrade.

Did this make the final cut?

Thanks in advance

Chad

Yes, it did make the cut.

[Chad Harrison]

Great news! Thanks for the reply Kereguelen.

A couple of things had been mentioned that they did not make the cut, so I am glad that this critical (atleast I think so) element did.

[Skyland]

If a modder decides to start with allied bases in Indochina, how the game engine will react considering rule 8.8 ?

[kmussler]

Just a question out my curiousity: How are the composition and upgrades handled for the USMC Defense Battalions?   There were a handfull of these units during the war and their initial compositions varied.  Also in late 1944, many were radically reconstituted into AAA units, with the unit's big guns being sent to Corps artillery units, and with tanks and infantry dispersed to USMC divisions as replacements.   Has this been modeled?  (My interest is keen because my dad was in the 9th DB.  He was sent back to the states in 12/44)   Thanks.

Kurt

p.s. I am greatly anticipating and enjoying the new, more extensive OOB. [:D] Thanks for your great effort.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: kmussler

Just a question out my curiousity: How are the composition and upgrades handled for the USMC Defense Battalions?   There were a handfull of these units during the war and their initial compositions varied.  Also in late 1944, many were radically reconstituted into AAA units, with the unit's big guns being sent to Corps artillery units, and with tanks and infantry dispersed to USMC divisions as replacements.   Has this been modeled?  (My interest is keen because my dad was in the 9th DB.  He was sent back to the states in 12/44)   Thanks.

Kurt

p.s. I am greatly anticipating and enjoying the new, more extensive OOB. [:D] Thanks for your great effort.

All the US Marine Corps Defense Battalions that served in the Pacific are in the game.

They start the game with a mix of infantry, machine guns, AA and CD guns. Each battalion is equipped with the type of CD gun it had when the war broke out (it varies widely -- 3-4-5-6 and 7" guns, and some old 155s.) Eventually they all upgrade to modern 155s.

The basic defense battalion has 20 squads. Some battalions had an extra 1 (or, in one case, 2,) companies -- they start with an extra 10 squads per company. A few defense battalions had a tank platoon attached. They start off with 5 M2A4 tanks, which will upgrade to M3 Stuart light tanks. The extra squads and tanks are not included in the TO&E, so if they are lost in combat, or through attrition, you can't replace them.

In 1944 all but two of the defense battalions 'upgrade' to AA battalions, built around the wonderfully versatile 90mm (DP) gun. It is a triple-threat weapon: good in the AA, bombardment, and coastal defense role.

The 9th USMC Defense Battalion arrives in October 1942, in the Eastern US, commanded by Col. Nimmer. It has a tank platoon attached.

[kmussler]

Blackhorse,
Thank you for the work you've done on this. What you've described is what I had hoped to see in the game.[;)]. I have a book on the 9th that shows its official TO&E. I presume the 40mm Bofers and 20mm AA guns have also been included. The 9th got a Navy unit citation for its shooting accuracy with those 90mm. Dad complained about the way the Army used the battalion's tank platoon on New Georgia. It's too bad they can't be replaced once lost in the game. Dad's boot was done at Parris Island. They shipped to the Pacific through Panama, reaching Guadalcanal in the last week of November, I think. Thanks again for all your work on this. [:D] (big smiles)

Kurt

[Blackhorse]

Yep. The Oerlikons (20mm) and Bofors (40mm) are both part of the upgraded TO&E, along with the 90mm.