caculating odds

[bo]

I need a refresher about how MWIF will handle this. I am attacking a unit across a river in woods. I have 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and 2 corps and 1 division in an adjacent hex all able to attack the enemy unit across the river, lets say I attack with the 4 corps, does the computer calculate the final odds for me. eg: [across the river and in woods] and if I am not happy with these odds can I then bring into play the 2 divisions that have not been used yet and get the odds recalculated as long as I have not pushed the done button? Also can I finish that battle before I move other troops or must all the troops have been moved and all battles declared first. I am still in awe how you WIF players did all these things thank god for computers.

Willy

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: bo

I need a refresher about how MWIF will handle this. I am attacking a unit across a river in woods. I have 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and 2 corps and 1 division in an adjacent hex all able to attack the enemy unit across the river, lets say I attack with the 4 corps, does the computer calculate the final odds for me. eg: [across the river and in woods] and if I am not happy with these odds can I then bring into play the 2 divisions that have not been used yet and get the odds recalculated as long as I have not pushed the done button? Also can I finish that battle before I move other troops or must all the troops have been moved and all battles declared first. I am still in awe how you WIF players did all these things thank god for computers.

Willy

Declaring land combat is a separate phase. They are all declared at the same time. Then the program advances to the next phase and all those decisions made. Eventually you get to land combat resolution where the attacker decides the order in whcih the combat wil be resolved. Note that having made the commitment earlier, he is unable to say "oh, let's not".

Here's that snippet of the sequence of play with the cross references into RAC (same section #s as RAW).

Code: Select all

     pInvasion,                // RAC 11.14.
     pParadrop,                // RAC 11.15.
     pLandCombatDeclaration,   // RAC 11.16.1.
     pIgnoreNotional,          // RAC 11.14.
     pEmergencyHQSupply,       // RAC 2.4.3.
     pShoreBombardmentD,       // RAC 11.16.2.
     pShoreBombardmentA,       // RAC 11.16.2.
     pHQSupportD,              // RAC 11.16.3.
     pHQSupportA,              // RAC 11.16.3.
     pGroundSupport,           // RAC 11.16.4.
     pLandCombatResolution,    // RAC 11.16.5 & 11.16.6.
 

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: bo

I need a refresher about how MWIF will handle this. I am attacking a unit across a river in woods. I have 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and 2 corps and 1 division in an adjacent hex all able to attack the enemy unit across the river, lets say I attack with the 4 corps, does the computer calculate the final odds for me. eg: [across the river and in woods] and if I am not happy with these odds can I then bring into play the 2 divisions that have not been used yet and get the odds recalculated as long as I have not pushed the done button? Also can I finish that battle before I move other troops or must all the troops have been moved and all battles declared first. I am still in awe how you WIF players did all these things thank god for computers.

Willy

You must announce all land attacks before resolving them. I don't think the game will show you the attack odds as you select which units will attack, you'll have to do that in your head. There are very few situations where you would not attack with all adjacent units (if you do attack), when playing with fractional odds, since every additional attack factor might help.

One time you might not commit all adjacent units is if you are worried that all of them will be disorganized in the attack.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: bo

I need a refresher about how MWIF will handle this. I am attacking a unit across a river in woods. I have 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and 2 corps and 1 division in an adjacent hex all able to attack the enemy unit across the river, lets say I attack with the 4 corps, does the computer calculate the final odds for me. eg: [across the river and in woods] and if I am not happy with these odds can I then bring into play the 2 divisions that have not been used yet and get the odds recalculated as long as I have not pushed the done button? Also can I finish that battle before I move other troops or must all the troops have been moved and all battles declared first. I am still in awe how you WIF players did all these things thank god for computers.

Willy

You must announce all land attacks before resolving them. I don't think the game will show you the attack odds as you select which units will attack, you'll have to do that in your head. There are very few situations where you would not attack with all adjacent units (if you do attack), when playing with fractional odds, since every additional attack factor might help.

One time you might not commit all adjacent units is if you are worried that all of them will be disorganized in the attack.

No, the program will show you the odds as you add/subtract land units from an attack. You just have the mouse hover over the hex and the text in the Main form shows you what's what. But there are all those additional decisions that are made after an attack is announced that can mess up one's carefully crafted attack.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
No, the program will show you the odds as you add/subtract land units from an attack.

All the better. [:)]

[HansHafen]

Man will the program make me some java too!

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

Man will the program make me some java too!

Of course! But only Kona coffee.

[brian brian]

ORIGINAL: bo

[across the river and in woods]

dang Bo, my Grandma lets me come over without commanding 4 corps and 2 divisions of troops!
(American Thanksgiving reference for you international types)


very nice of the program to show you the odds while you are designating attacks

[Edfactor]

Just always play with fractional odds, it makes it much easier.

[Grapeshot Bob]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

Man will the program make me some java too!

Of course! But only Kona coffee.

How about Kona bud?

LOL



GSB

[brian brian]

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

Just always play with fractional odds, it makes it much easier.

I do always play with this option and will suggest the same to anyone playing WiF. I am always amazed at some of the resistance to it. Once you do it, I doubt you will ever go back. It makes decision-making soooo much simpler for both sides. If a hex is important, you use as many of your assets as you can spare, they all count. Similarly, you don't need to endlessly shuffle your units to get the most out of their combat factors by matching them all to the odds levels of different combats. A huge time saver for everyone, and I strongly advise using it for PBEM.

When and if I ever pick up any of my other games very much again, I will probably try and figure out a way to write a small program to handle this for me on those 1d6 land combat tables. I think this should be possible but far simpler with a little electronic assistance? Maybe I'll just make the extra die a 1d10 like in WiF. But since my other main game uses a whole lot of 2d6 direct-fire rolls (Cross of Iron), I haven't gotten around to this just yet.

But thanks for the reminder Edfactor, I just played the first impulse of a new ftf game and we forgot to discuss this when setting up the optionals. What I want to do is move on up to pure 'straight fractionals'...never round anything, combat factors or pluses (I don't think there are any 2d10 minuses that are ever halved?). But always rounding things off is a hard WiF habit to break after so many years, but I think I can do it, though it might be a bit hard on all those critical Japanese attacks led by Umezu and Yamashita. We did finally learn to move HQs a little bit in inclement weather, though that took a while. (And now it is hard to use the HQ movement optional, though I like that one a lot).


Anyway so if you are new the game, you are wondering about now just what are we talking about? Fractional Odds is an optional rule in WiF that adds an extra die to the roll for combat resolution. I'll explain it for the 2d10 table; it's been so long since I played 1d10 I doubt I would get that right any more.

Let's say you are attempting to break the center of the French line in May, 1940. You summon up all of your most powerful corps and artillery and the best you can get is a 49:10 attack no matter how you arrange your pieces. So close to 5:1, but not quite. Eureka, I'll send in an Me-109 with a point of Ground Support! Then the French have the same thought to use their last fighter-bomber too, to make it 50:11, bye-bye 5:1, back to 4:1. The original attack would have been 4.9:1, or a 4:1 on the regular table and thus a +8 on the 2d10 table. With Fractionals, you resolve it as a +9.8 attack with the 2d10. The sum of the two attack dice would have 9 added to them, and a special third die (best to use two matching dice for the main roll and a third one of a different color) is also rolled, on a 1-8 on that dice a further pip is added to the grand total to determine the result. If the attackers were at 41:10, that would be a +8.2 attack, and you would get an extra plus if you rolled a 1 or 2 on the third die.

So using this system, anything the attacker or defender can commit to combat is included and of some value. All that annoying factor counting is banished for good as you commit forces to different attacks based on their overall priorities. The game is greatly speeded up as a result, leaving your mind free to constantly revise your strategy and tactics rather than your mathematics.

And if you are wondering how the 2d10 table works, I hope there is some material on that around here somewhere else, cuz that is a bit of an explanation for anyone new as well.

[paulderynck]

And in another thread, I think Steve said MWIF would go to 1D100 for resolving the fractional odds!

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

And in another thread, I think Steve said MWIF would go to 1D100 for resolving the fractional odds!

I just revised the random number generator the other day. The fractional odds comparison is based on 1000ths.

[paulderynck]

Holy accuracy, Batman. [X(]
 

[brian brian]

1/1000ths? that sounds pretty cool. I'm really really tired right now...could you show us an example? maybe the MWiF form for this? I think I know how it works now that I think about it for 2 seconds.

so I could fly in some Ground Support from my MBR-2 Flying Boat in at extended range in the rain to a woods hex (heck yeah, over the river too)....and it would still help my attack. a little bit. I'll have to try that some time. oh how delicious it would be to hear the howls from my opponent when I win the battle thanks to that extra bit of help on that third extra dice that made the margin of victory.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

1/1000ths? that sounds pretty cool. I'm really really tired right now...could you show us an example? maybe the MWiF form for this? I think I know how it works now that I think about it for 2 seconds.

so I could fly in some Ground Support from my MBR-2 Flying Boat in at extended range in the rain to a woods hex (heck yeah, over the river too)....and it would still help my attack. a little bit. I'll have to try that some time. oh how delicious it would be to hear the howls from my opponent when I win the battle thanks to that extra bit of help on that third extra dice that made the margin of victory.

Attack odds of 10:3 would be 3:1 with a .333 out of 1.000 chance of becoming 4:1.