FITE Chambers vs Fulkerson

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the minimap movie showing the Soviet moves from turns 198 thru turn 202.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the minimap movie showing Soviet moves from turns 205 thro 209. Curt is still moving his units into good positions for attack. He says he also wants to insure that all parts of the front lines have good supply before he starts the big push.

I'm thinking that maybe the final attack will start sometime around turn 220 or so. That would give Curt time to develop his supply lines more and have the final units arrive at their positions in the front lines. The units on the east side have rested the most so maybe he'll attack starting there.

[Hyding]

Very interested to see if Larry's sacrifice of all territory to the south will pay off. A lot of very defensible terrain was sacrificed. His existing line is longer than many he could have held and leaves him with few fall back options.

I have not have played this scenario (and I bet few have from this situation) but I assume his forces enjoy maximum resupply potential along this line. There is also little need in the south to worry about losing units unable to disengage since there is little room left to fall back.

[Hyding]

Okay his exixting is as long as other lines he could have held saying other lines are shorter is a bit of a stretch.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the minimap movie showing turns 210 throu 214. Curt is still filling in the front lines on the south side and getting ready for the start of the final push. This game may be all over before 01 Jan. '44 arrives.

[larryfulkerson]

I had gotten out of the habit of watching the playback movie and didn't really watch my front lines all that well and Curt got past my front lines on the northwest side. I was asleep at the wheel and now I have to try to push those guys back if I can.

[larryfulkerson]

I did a pre-emptive attack this turn so I guess the shooting war has started again. Here's the front lines as of the end of turn 217. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture. The front lines are at the edges of the picture.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the axis losses so far:

[Veer]

Will we be seeing a 'back-hand' blow al manstein? Maybe a thrust up to do a reverse Courland encirclement?

At this stage encirclements and destroying Soviet forces are the key to survival. Simply fighting a WW1 type static battle of attrition for 200 turns will lead to inevitable defeat for the Germans.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Veer
At this stage encirclements and destroying Soviet forces are the key to survival.

So far I'm attacking with my tanks and rail road engineers backed up by arty. It's kind of sad to use RRengineers to be the "bait" for artillery raids but I don't need them anymore ( so much at least ) and I'm having some measure of success. I lose about 7 RRengineers per attack ( plus some civilians and sundry ) and the Soviets lose about 20 Squads. So....as long as I can attack and cause more cost to him than to me (and avoid the Russian Big Push) I may be able to stay in the game some some time yet. Otherwise it's going to all be over with by late '43 or early '44.

ORIGINAL: Veer
Simply fighting a WW1 type static battle of attrition for 200 turns will lead to inevitable defeat for the Germans.

I think you may be correct in that assessment but I don't have the manpower to hold the line all over the place and spare some troops and Panzers for an envelopment at the same time. Plus, Curt always, always, ALWAYS has some reserve behind his lines to avoid the German envelopment(s). So a WWI-style battle is just about all the strategy I have left. I'm open to suggestions but.....

[Raindem]

I have to agree with Larry here.  There is no where to attack that won't run into dense Kursk-style defensive positions.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's a movie I've made from turns 217 throu 221 and it shows the changes in the front lines between the two turns. Most of the changes are seen in the southwest corner. So far I've been able to plug the holes Curt is making in my lines but I can't keep that up for very long. He's going to make a breakthrough sometime soon and his next stop will be Berlin.

[LLv34_Snefens]

Since you decided on a grand withdrawal, you should have set up defense in the Carpathian Mountains, instead of letting him walk unhindered to 20 hexes from Berlin.
Much better defensive positions and with the major escarpments there you could have saved lots of units for use to bolster defense in threatend sectors.
He then would have to chose between attacking fortifications or mountains, both expensive options. Now he have clear terrain all the way.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: LLv34_Snefens
Since you decided on a grand withdrawal, you should have set up defense in the Carpathian Mountains, instead of letting him walk unhindered to 20 hexes from Berlin.
Much better defensive positions and with the major escarpments there you could have saved lots of units for use to bolster defense in threatend sectors.
He then would have to chose between attacking fortifications or mountains, both expensive options. Now he have clear terrain all the way.

Yeah, I screwed up big time. And it's going to cost me the game. This is why I never win when I play FITE. Most of the time I play better players than I am too. Oh well, that's the way I learn how to play I guess.

Here's a better picture of the way the Soviets are pushing my lines further north toward Berlin ( this is the changes between turns 217 and 222 ):

[larryfulkerson]

Here's a movie showing the differences between the front lines in turn 220 and the front lines in turn 224. There is obviously a slow compression going on in the area of the southern front. The Axis is being slowly pushed north. And there's not much the Axis can do about it either.

[rhinobones]

Two observations . . .

1. Any two people that play this game for 217 turns must be the most dedicated, persistent and bull headed people on the planet. Congratulations.

2. After looking at the number of troops “On Hand” (post #727) that are basically just standing around (military police, mounted rifles, light rifles) don’t you just wish that you could reassign them to more useful functions, such as heavy, SMG or assault squads?

Think TOAW needs a mod where excess troops can be redirected to more useful purposes. Actually this is a basic design flaw in TOAW. The scenario designer can make a guess about which units need reinforcements, but once the game begins it is out of his hands. Maybe these decisions need to be put into the hands of the players.

I’m not proposing that troops be reassigned to units that require heavy industrial production, but reassignment from military police to rifle squad does seem plausible.

BTW – Recently returned home from a five week stay in Tucson. Would have liked to seen you, but the mission was 24/7 and the evenings were spent with Miss Merlot. Nice to be back in the Seychelles.

Regards, RhinoBones

[Veer]

1. Any two people that play this game for 217 turns must be the most dedicated, persistent and bull headed people on the planet. Congratulations.

Seconded, keep going guys.

Think TOAW needs a mod where excess troops can be redirected to more useful purposes. Actually this is a basic design flaw in TOAW.

I think it's more of a case that TOAW is designed as an operational level game, not strategic. And that really can't be changed no matter how much we try.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's a pictorial chart I put together just now to gauge how fast I'm loosing Heavy Rifle Squads. As you can see I'm loosing roughly about 1,000 HRS's every turn. At this rate the game will be over soon, ( certaintly within 34 turns ). I predict that the Soviets will make a breakthrough in about a dozen turns.

[SMK-at-work]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

The Axis is being slowly pushed north. And there's not much the Axis can do about it either.

Rubbish - you could collapse in a screaming heap much faster if you put your mind to it!

Well done both of you for keeping it going this long, but, as has been said already, bit of a blunder with the length of that withdrawal Larry[:-]

[Raindem]

Larry's lines have been holding up surprisingly well, helped I'm sure by the many one round turns I'm experiencing.  I've noticed when I get at least 3 rounds in I can do some real damage.  Less than that and Larry is able to patch the holes.

I too believe this will be over soon.  Although it doesn't appear from the mini-map that much progress is being made, in reality his line is weakening at an alarming rate.  Pretty soon I'll be punching holes in my first couple of rounds and I've got fresh armor standing by to exploit that.  We'll have to sit through one more mud season cease fire (which will give Larry one last breather) and then I think I can finish it with my winter offensive.