Again, The Germans ARE Strategic Idiots

[06 Maestro]

And I am accused of being anti-German. Damned right I am anti-German, if you are speaking of the Germany of WWII. As copius scholarship has now shown the majority of the German people (see Hitler's Willing Executioners) and army (again see the huge amount of documentation in Germany and the Second World War), regular as well as SS, fully supported Hitler's mass murder, colluded in it, and regreted nothing except that they lost. Let's get this straight; the Germans weren't victims, too. They were murderous monsters who got far less than they deserved in retribution.

Apparently you are not aware of what happened in Germany after the war. Even where there is a free flow of information, it is not well known. I will only site a US Senator from Circa 1947 in a speech on the floor who said that "if the American people knew what was happening in Germany there would be a revolution in this country". He was not talking about how good the Germans had it.

Someone had to pay for the crimes of Hitler and Germans are the rational choice. They did pay a price that was far more mortal and brutal than anyone else.

You have started 4 threads now on the same subject. You have received more or less the same type of responses. Perhaps you should make an effort to re-think some of the situations that occurred during the war and ask yourself; what could I have done different and better if I had been the Operations officer of the 4th PZ Army in 1943. Would you kill Hitler? Would you provide your commander with all the info he needed to win the battle you were in? Would you life experience and personal honor exceed that of the man who was actually in that position?

IMO, those fellows that are putting out this current official history in Germany are the worst kind of lacky's. They would have been groveling at Hitler's feet rather than attempting to tell him like it is.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

IMO, those fellows that are putting out this current official history in Germany are the worst kind of lacky's. They would have been groveling at Hitler's feet rather than attempting to tell him like it is.

So true. These guys grovel at the feet of toothless Political Correctness. How much more slavish would their devotion be to a master who was going to punish disobedience with death or worse?

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Goebbles only announced that Germany was declaring 'Total War' in 1943, by which time the Allies had been on a total war footing for some time and it was much too late for Germany.

Why would you take statements by Goebbles as anything but Propaganda? Propaganda was his function.

Do you believe Germany was on anything but a total war footing prior to that? I dont.

In 1943 Goebbles released a propaganda statement that Germany hadnt really been trying and now they were really gonna put on their try faces.

Thats how I read that.

[SS Hauptsturmfuhrer]

ORIGINAL: Mus

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

IMO, those fellows that are putting out this current official history in Germany are the worst kind of lacky's. They would have been groveling at Hitler's feet rather than attempting to tell him like it is.

So true. These guys grovel at the feet of toothless Political Correctness. How much more slavish would their devotion be to a master who was going to punish disobedience with death or worse?

I recommend you avoid that kind of intellectual, biased stuff designed to get your money rather than teach you things about the war. Stick to real military history like David Glantz or many other books which explain history unbiased and 100% fact. It's much more interesting cause you don't have to skim through pages of empty babble like you get from intellectual literature.

Here are two well-written educational books which are hard to stop reading and they contain no opinions or theories, just the story as it happened.

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Ruhr-Germa ... 0700614907

http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Faithful- ... 947&sr=1-1

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

I recommend you avoid that kind of intellectual, biased stuff designed to get your money rather than teach you things about the war. Stick to real military history like David Glantz or many other books which explain history unbiased and 100% fact.

I agree, and very much distrust and dislike history that I believe is motivated or influenced by political factors more than is inevitable in any human work.

[ezzler]

"The prime German error was a constant failure to match resources to ends"

Hmm. So ?
Would that not be a good description of the Bomber offensive 1940 - 1944?
The Commonwealth Greek adventure? How would the 1940 Allied Norway invasion be best discussed? A strategic leap to secure iron ore? Was it well supplied? Did it achieve its purpose. was it remotely realistic.
was the Dyle plan a really good plan considering the forces and time available?

Positioning a fleet at Pearl Harbour that was near enough to be a tempting target and small enough to be effectively damaged.. would you say that showed allied superiority in strategy?

The truth is the war was the usual mix of money, politics, resources and personalities. I am unimpressed with your concussions Miral that the Germans were military fools. That may well be partly, but not totally true. If it were as damming as you attest they wouldn't have got past Poland.

[Berkut]

I don't really want to get into an in depth debate on this, but i think most of you are not really understanding what he is saying - not because you are incapable, but because you are looking at the 10,000ft view of the problem, and he is looking at the 30,000ft view.

Just food for thought.

[06 Maestro]

It is difficult to discuss this subject with the rules of this forum-this is not the place to get into the root problem of the primary differences. The difference is not about an amount of detail-its the details itself. I'm afraid it is impossible to avoid politics in such a discussion.
If Miral knows of a site in English where he would like to discuss this I would be more than happy to oblige-for a while anyway. So, Miral please feel free to PM me/us.

[Rasputitsa]

I have been away and I am late in getting back to this,

ORIGINAL: Mus
Why would you take statements by Goebbles as anything but Propaganda? Propaganda was his function.

Do you believe Germany was on anything but a total war footing prior to that? I dont.

Yes I do believe that Germany was late in moving to a full 'Total War' footing. We all have to rely on sources and this thread was triggered by discussion on sources, but I feel that this issue is covered in many publications. I use the following quote as I read it two days ago, having just bought the book

'Perhaps Germany's most fundamental logistical vulnerability was the fact that it had not mobilized its economy for war.' - The Battle for Leningrad 1941-1944 - David M Glantz

This could have come from any one of a dozen books I have on my shelves. It is only after extensive reading that there can be any confidence in the truth. We are all at the mercy of our sources, but I believe my original comment to be correct. [:)]

[panzers]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Meant to ask...what does your opinion of the German Command structure have to do with this game? Why not post it in the General Discussion forum?

lol. As I'm looking own the forum, I was waiting who would be the first to say that. WTF! Save it for other forums. Like umm, say, General forum? yeah, that one. There is one right now as of this post dealing particularly about this very topic.
I came on here to see the latest on CEAW gold, not your opinion about the best generals, by far, in WWII.
And, if you want to debate that, then go to the general forum and I will chew you up and spit you out like a coyote on road kill, on the topic.