AE, the real game (YH v TS mk IX)

[Yamato hugger]

Cant post 2 screenshots in 1 post so I split this one to another post and yes, unescorted merchies is not a good plan.

This turn, I-169 finished off the AP. I saw a post on the devs forum from Tree on this TF (he had a question about unloading an escort TF). It had 57 float damage and elements of the 8th Marine regiment (2nd Marine division) aboard. 99% sure it sank (heard sinking sounds right after the hit). This hex is 5 hexes due east of Palmyra and 8 hexes off I-169s patrol path meaning it followed its prey, it didnt react to it. It was attacked last turn in hex "Y" and sunk this turn in hex "X". And is now on its way back to its patrol area as you can see.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 30, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Palmyra at 175,133

Japanese Ships
SS I-169

Allied Ships
xAP Santa Maria, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


SS I-169 launches 4 torpedoes

[EUBanana]

I don't envy the Japanese in 1943 facing Allied submarines...  You'll have to keep Catalinas well clear of any supply lines.  Might make coastal China important.

[Fishbed]

That new sub routine feels like a new game in the game, very nice [:)]

[Yamato hugger]

You can do the same with SCTFs, ASWs, supply TFs, anything really. I have never seen a carrier react to anything though. I had 2 CV groups in the Coral Sea shooting up transports between Moresby and Townsville and they never reacted to any of them. I know he had a carrier in this area just before I got here (south of Guadalcanal actually).

In this shot, the Hiryu/Soryu (western most TF) is covering 2 divisions enroute to Moresby with 2 CVLs, a BB division and a replentishment TF. The Akagi/Kaga is south of Guadalcanal escorting a division to Fiji. The Shokaku/Zuikaku shot up some mine sweepers and transports off Townsville 2 turns ago and are now headed to help out the Akagi group. A 2nd division is about 8 hexes south of Ponape that will be going to New Calidonia if they arent needed in Fiji. I believe the bulk of his carriers are waiting near Java (one attacked ships in the Ambon area a week ago). 3 more bomb hits on the Repulse in Singapore harbor this turn.

[Yamato hugger]

No ASW react attacks, but then I dont think I spotted any subs this turn. Several sub attacks south of Java resulting in 2 large tankers sunk and a large AP hit and heavily damaged. The Moresby force landed and based on what I see shooting at me, I dont think I will have a problem taking it next turn:

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3750 troops, 48 guns, 20 vehicles, Assault Value = 141

Defending force 28995 troops, 215 guns, 32 vehicles, Assault Value = 883

Japanese ground losses:
83 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Assaulting units:
49th Australian Battalion
2/1st Ind Coy
Lark Battalion
Port Moresby Brigade
Rabaul Det. Base Force
15th RAAF Base Force
148th Field Artillery Battalion
131st FA Bn /1

Defending units:
4th Division
21st Division

[Yamato hugger]

Still no ASW reacts even though there was at least 1 sighting within range of a patrol.

Morseby fell. PoW was spotted, attacked, and missed 3 or 4 hexes west of Batavia. Escorts sank the sub. 2 other subs have been vectored into the area.

[EUBanana]

Morseby fell.

So Japan still managed this very quickly, then.

Do you think you purposely committed quite a lot to SOPAC, or did the rapid overrunning of this part of the map not really cost you much in terms of LCUs or transports?

I see you're using carriers over there, so I guess the answer is 'yes it did'.

[Flying Tiger]

ORIGINAL: tigercub

but as you can see its only training one of 12 lists that can be inproved a pond so not that big of a deal.  

But that ONE may be the only one that counts for this plane type. We dont need all our pilots to excel at everything - who needs a P51 pilot who excels at torpedo bombing???

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

ORIGINAL: tigercub

but as you can see its only training one of 12 lists that can be inproved a pond so not that big of a deal.  

But that ONE may be the only one that counts for this plane type. We dont need all our pilots to excel at everything - who needs a P51 pilot who excels at torpedo bombing???

Easy - an Avenger squadron! <rimshot!>

Steve.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

ORIGINAL: tigercub

but as you can see its only training one of 12 lists that can be inproved a pond so not that big of a deal.  

But that ONE may be the only one that counts for this plane type. We dont need all our pilots to excel at everything - who needs a P51 pilot who excels at torpedo bombing???

No plane has only 1, unless of course DEFENSE doesnt matter to you, then I suppose...

Course when he gets rotated out doesnt mean he will come back in a fighter squadron either. Note the squadron commander of this Zero group. 75 experience, 78 defense, but only a 36 air to air rating. Look at Nav B and Nav T. He was clearly a Kate pilot.

[EUBanana]

Seeing these submarines hounding surface ships is pretty damn scary.

Not that it's inaccurate mind.&nbsp; But it's still scary.

I remember in WITP I never ever had enough destroyers, looks like compared to AE the troubles have only just begun...&nbsp; [:D]

[Yamato hugger]

Well the Japs have 4 dozen SCs (half have an ASW strength of 4 the other half have 8) and I dont even know how many PBs. Dozens. Not to mention minesweepers have ASW strengths, hell even some Jap CAs have an ASW strength.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I THINK it has to do with setting the react range, the I-8 attack was certainly react movement. It maybe just pure skipper aggression as to following (as in the case of the 169 boat above). I had them until 2 turns ago with their default "0" setting with nothing happening, so I tried setting this flotilla to 6 to see what happens. Needless to say all my sub patrols are on "6" now.

Looks like you just recreated the "wolfpack". Pretty neat.

Yes, but I suppose this can be dangerous-especially later in the war when the allies can put together some pretty deadly ASW TF. I don't think I would want all of my agressive sub commanders reacting to a hunter killer group. Probably suggesting that setting and tactics will need to be altered as the war progresses.

Could a player send a lone ap in with a hunter killer TF ordered to follow? Classic honey trap..... I see that subs are going to be fun.

[EUBanana]

ASW TFs are limited to 4 ships in AE, so I imagine they won't be instakills at least.

[Yamato hugger]

May as well give 'em the finger on your way out:

[Sardaukar]

I think it did hit Admiral's booze locker!&nbsp;[:D]

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I think it did hit Admiral's booze locker! [:D]

The "Heavy damage" was caused by torp hits on the first turn.

Bettys/Nells still carry torps, but if the pilot isnt trained in the attack, then they arent going to hit much. Pilots with less than 50 experience dont really do a lot. Here is an example of why you need not fear the plane but the pilots instead:

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

May as well give 'em the finger on your way out:

BB Prince of Wales firing on surfaced sub

BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 1, heavy damage

YH, please be more careful when you post such stuff. I spilled my coffee!

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Could a player send a lone ap in with a hunter killer TF ordered to follow? Classic honey trap..... I see that subs are going to be fun.

Or run decoys to clear out an area for a following TF.

I'm a little concerned we've created a monster. I don't know dickey-doo about historical sub ops, but this seems a little too aggressive. To a degree, weren't sub patrol areas assigned to pretty much just one sub to minimize fratricide? Of course, if you set react to zero, you can keep subs in their area, and there's no reason you can't give orders to pursue ships across the entire Pacific in order to get a kill. Still . . .

To what extent did Japanese or American subs get accurate tracking information from aircraft reports? Didn't subs communicate with just Pearl? Would a PBY/Mavis yap out blind over the radio a ship's position, course, and speed in the off-chance that there might be a friendly sub in the area that would hear it? There certainly wasn't coordination between CommSubPac in Pearl or SF and VP-1 at Levu Vana so that VP-1 would know what friendly sub was where and when. My impression is that, generally, subs did their thing and everyone else did their thing, and n'er the twain shall meet. So I'm a little skeptical of aircraft spotting for subs - not that it couldn't be done (I think the Germans tried to an extent, though didn't that still go air to shore to ship?), but was it?

And for a sub to be chasing AP's for a couple of hundred miles would require the sub to run on the surface the entire time with a nifty wake. Does a sub in this mode increase its risk of being attacked by a/c? And, of course, if there is a significant enemy air presence, the sub is going to be forced down enough where it probably couldn't keep pace with its quarry.

I don't know. It just seems that this episode show submarines tracking ships in an exceptionally coordinated and aggressive manner.

[Knavey]

byron,

Didn't the subs coordinate with the CVs that killed the Yamato and company? Seem to recall they were spotted leaving port and a couple of USN subs radioed such. Heading to work right now so can't look it up.