PBEM 109

Mus · Post by **Mus** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:06 am

Hopefully Sweden sends soon, I would like to get another turn in.

Mus · Post by **Mus** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:10 am

Trade announcement:

Great Britain is looking for trading partners with surplus Iron, Wood, Horses, and Wool/Cotton.

Will trade 2 money per resource or 1 money 1 spice per resource. Send me a pm if you are interested. Once the details are worked out through PM you would enable your "export" box on your PBEM settings for that resource and I would send the deals from my end. After the deal goes through (takes a couple turns) you would then turn the export box off to prevent the idiot trade AI from trading away everything but the kitchen sink.

Anthropoid · Post by **Anthropoid** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:20 am

Russia also has wool to export. Make your best offer if you are sincerely interested.

aprezto · Post by **aprezto** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am

Umm, I have set some trade policies but note that earlier PBEMs (that I've only now looked into as they seemed to be mainly for those playing), that this could get me into all sorts of strife as the AI goes mad trading my resources. Should I redo my turn?

terje439 · Post by **terje439** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:32 am

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior

Got yours Brian, haven't received aprezto's or Anthropoid's despite them saying they've sent the files.

Sorry to say IW, but it seems it is at your end then, I could not send to you when I first emailed the turns to everyone, had to send it to you as a mail of its own.

terje439 · Post by **terje439** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:41 am

About the AARs, are any of you posting on other sites as well? I am posting it here and on civfanatics.com

Anthropoid · Post by **Anthropoid** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:20 am

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Umm, I have set some trade policies but note that earlier PBEMs (that I've only now looked into as they seemed to be mainly for those playing), that this could get me into all sorts of strife as the AI goes mad trading my resources. Should I redo my turn?

Not entirely sure how trade works in this system in MP.

06 Maestro · Post by **06 Maestro** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:18 pm

ORIGINAL: terje439

About the AARs, are any of you posting on other sites as well? I am posting it here and on civfanatics.com

I am still shopping around. I had 2 sites in mind, but have not noticed a non review aar. I'll find a place eventually.

06 Maestro · Post by **06 Maestro** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:21 pm

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Not entirely sure how trade works in this system in MP.

You ain't the only one..

I did not read that far into the rules-thought it might have worked the same.

aprezto · Post by **aprezto** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:06 pm

I was just twigged to it by Mus asking to do trade, I had figured that would be done with the internal system. I then read the 1st PBEM game that highlighted some serious failings with the automated trade system - of course I did this all after sending in my turn!
It appears the trade AI has some strange ideas about what it rates as important, and that mainly revolves around stockpiles you have.
I had set trade policy such that I allowed imports and exports for the resources I felt I could trade. However, I don't know whether the trade AI instigates trade deals, or just 'allows' the ones players request???
Obviously, if it the second, then an unscrupulous player could request a very poor trade that the AI would OK because you have a large stockpile - of money say.
Mus, at least, seemed to completely lack trust in the trade AI and favoured player to player diplomacy and only opening the resources you were after in a trade, and only in a very small window.
 
What's up with the next turn?

06 Maestro · Post by **06 Maestro** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:03 pm

Can someone tell me where the "set policy" page is at for trading? I reloaded the initial turn sent to me. After choosing my country, it goes right into the game. The button might be right under my nose, but I can't find it.

I thought the only setting depended on using the trade adviser, but I noticed a different page in the instructions. Help would be appreciated-thanks.

aprezto · Post by **aprezto** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:00 pm

right mouse click anywhere in your territory and you'll get a menu option to 'set PBEM policy'

06 Maestro · Post by **06 Maestro** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:24 pm

[X(]-thanks

Mus · Post by **Mus** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:29 pm

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Mus, at least, seemed to completely lack trust in the trade AI and favoured player to player diplomacy and only opening the resources you were after in a trade, and only in a very small window.

Yep. I advise keeping very strict control over your exports and imports and only allowing exports when you KNOW a trading parter is going to be sending a trade proposal that you have worked out ahead of time.

Theoretically the trading partner could sucker your AI trade thingy into accepting a bad deal but that would be kinda like violating your word in a diplomatic arrangement. They other party would just cancel the deal and then not do business with you in the future. Basically shooting yourself in the foot.

Below are some examples of AI trade lunacy:

1. If you have a large stockpile of any resource (but mainly noticed it with money) the AI greatly devalues it... it doesnt consider the perceptions of other players, who may well be critically short of said resource, when placing value.

An example of this is Great Britain which is one of the few cash rich countries in the game. France is second, but usually spends its treasure on supplying wars of conquest and fighting off coalitions against it. Most other countries are fairly cash poor in comparison.

Because GB has a lot of cash the AI assigns a very low value to units of money and will trade money for resources at a very high ratio of money to resource. A rational human in charge of trade can realize that just because they have a lot of money doesnt mean that everyone else does (in fact most of the resource rich countries, the most desirable trading partners for Great Britain are cash poor) and will value their money accordingly.

This would be like a rich person buying a $30,000 car for $120,000 or even $300,000. People dont do that in the real world. Its not rational. The supply of the $30,000 commodity was limited such that the rich person had to compete to secure the purchase they would offer more, but no more than necessary to secure the purchase. They wouldnt devalue their money several times over as the AI does.

2. The AI trade engine thought in one game that 1 textile for 1 wool or cotton was a "good deal" when it takes 4 wool/cotton to make 1 textile. Most people can see that that kind of deal would be economic suicide, the AI trade engine thinks its fine and dandy. We never really figured out why the AI thought this was a good trade, but it led to the misconception that that was a "market price" (even though nobody would pay it by definition not market price) and killed a trade deal.

Mus · Post by **Mus** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:12 pm

Hey guys are we any closer to sorting out the email issues here?  I wanna play.
 
[:'(]

06 Maestro · Post by **06 Maestro** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:54 am

ORIGINAL: Mus

Hey guys are we any closer to sorting out the email issues here? I wanna play.

[:'(]

Double ditto.

06 Maestro · Post by **06 Maestro** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:59 am

When you offer your trade proposal via mail, is it necessary to specify the amounts and provinces? In other words; can I simply make arrangements for the type of resource and the exchange rate prior to sending the turn?

Mus · Post by **Mus** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:16 am

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

When you offer your trade proposal via mail, is it necessary to specify the amounts and provinces? In other words; can I simply make arrangements for the type of resource and the exchange rate prior to sending the turn?

The way Ive been handling trade is I negotiate with the other party via PM on the forum. We hammer out which provinces and what quantities are going to be involved in the trade. Then they set what Im going to give them as "import" and what they are going to give me as "export" and leave it that way for a couple turns while the trade goes through. I send the deal from my end using the economy-trade window. After the trade goes through they put their settings back however they want them on their PBEM policy screen.

This makes it a very short window of "vulnerability" as that term applies, to reduce as much as possible the chance the AI will accept undesirable deals involving those commodities sent by a third party, be it human or AI controlled to me or the second party.

IronWarrior · Post by **IronWarrior** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:28 am

Yeah so the email issues with apreazto and Anthropoid are all sorted, still waiting for Sweden. Maybe I misunderstood and Andrew doesn't want to play? I'll try pming him and see.

MorningDew · Post by **MorningDew** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:32 am

All. Embarrassed. Didn't realize I was playing:) I will get a move this AM and be MUCH faster/communicative in the future (I promise!).

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