"Bonaparte" combat difficulty

[ptan54]

I am playing June 1815 on Bonaparte combat difficulty level. Russian artillery deals 3000 dmg at point blank range to my infantry with skirmishers (combat report says distance = 1, +2500). But when my arty is at point blank range it just says distance =1, +400 and I deal 300 damage to his infantry!!! With lopsided damage like this there is no way I can win against high morale armies! And his arty pieces have 8+ morale, cavalry charges are not capturing them.

Is the absurd difference in damage due to the difficulty level only (though I doubt it - combat report only adds 100 for difficulty level) or is there something I'm missing? Both arty barrages were conducted on regular infantry at point blank range. What annoys me more is that their COSSACK INFANTRY can deal 500 damage to my non-disordered arty, and my counterattack deals less than 100 dmg to their cossacks!!!!!

EDIT - I am losing battles with 100,000 men vs. 60,000 British (they have higher morale than France). When I do a quick battle, I win! The absurd damage from arty isn't as bad in quick battle.

I'm a COG veteran, and I'm nowhere near as good as Sarge at detailed combat but I've never had such infuriating odds against me on Bonaparte level in COG.

[ShaiHulud]

Sounds like your arty was still in column...

[ptan54]

Even then, I checked the combat report, the column wasn't the deciding factor. I had Austrian LANDWEHR inflict 600 casualties on my horse arty, taking minimal (less than 100) casualties itself. This is pretty ridiculous I think. I'll post the screenshot when I get home, it wasn't the fact that I was in column or the Bonaparte level that made the difference, it was +300 "adjustment for division scale" or something.

[ShaiHulud]

Another relevant factor could be movement. If you moved your arty for all or most of their points, it will do considerably less damage, particularly if it's still in column. Likewise, if that Russian arty used ALL its points on firing, it would do commensurately more damage, besides the fact that Russ arty always has enhancements to start with.

I'm not arguing, merely pointing out what could be relevant factors.

[ptan54]

Here is the screenshot:



It was the +319 "increased damage at division scale" that led to the 600 casualties. Would've been 300 otherwise (and 300 was from Bonaparte, so on normal the landwehr would have been next to useless, which is WAD).

[Joram]

Not arguing your results but you are misinterpreting a couple of the numbers.  The divisional scale modifier is present at any difficulty.  I do not think this changes by difficulty either however that's easy to check.
 
But if you look at the second line you are adding 339 for the difficulty level.  This is increasing the casualties by 130% right there and that most certainly does change by difficulty.
 
Another thing you need to look at it is the 'die roll'.  Here you show them getting a 72% right off the bat which is not bad.  You probably had a much lower die roll in return.
 
With that said, and I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck here, Bonaparte is inherently supposed to be unfair to compensate for you genius tacticians as well as our ability to learn and adapt in ways the AI can't.  So I guess I am not surprised at your difficulty here.  In any case, it's not clear exactly what you are asking to change here.  If you want a more fair battle, you need to play at a lower difficulty.

[ptan54]

Guess I will play on a more "reasonable" battle difficulty.

Didn't realize that Bonaparte level made militia supermen!!

[Hard Sarge]

well, also, you are flanked, twice, in column and in bad terrian, you should get spanked

plus your not doing damage back, you are pretty much shattered, in column, bad terrain, and in a hex full of smoke

(other words, your guns are dead)

read all the info under the damage line, you in trouble

[ptan54]

Yea, had to replay that battle, this time playing ultra defensively and calling for reinforcements I managed to win. Looks like the best way to win on this difficulty is deploy in line and wait for them to ram themselves against your guns, on your home territory.

I have another question - I had some of my guys in village hexes. I thought those gave a defensive bonus? I checked the combat report when they attacked, they dealt more damage to my unit in a village? Shouldn't it be less?

How do you deal with armies with higher morale (Brits have higher morale than French)? Slugging it out is a sure recipe for disaster, I lose more morale than them with each attack and they have higher morale to begin with....

[morganbj]

As an old GOG player, you probably know this, so this may really be for the newer players.
 
Strategically, I try to get myself in a position where I fight them on my territory, getting the bonus, and with reinforcing corps/armies nearby.  In effect, I ambush them.
 
Tactically, I do what you suggest.  I let them come to me.  If the odds are anywhere close to even, that's the best choice.  BUT, when the opportunity is there to turn a flank without over exposing yourself, you must do it.  That evens the morale differences, perhaps even gives you the advantage.  Always have some cavalry present to harrass their supply; you don't have to actually attack it, just being nearby causes it to redeploy, costing it movement points that can't be used to resupply more distant units.
 
But, sometimes, you just have to resign yourself to the fact that you'll lose a battle.  Try to have other units that can engage the bad guys the next turn.  By wearing them down, even when you lose a series of battles over a few turns, can be the real key to success.  I had the Brits attack me (France) early in the 1796 scenario.  I lost.  But, Every turn for five or six months I put myself in front of them again, usually with a small number of reinforcements, losing every time.  They, of course, had no reinforcements.  Eventually, in Il de France, I had them at two to one.  It was then my priviledge to chase them back to Hanover, whittling them down to nothing on the way.
 
Hope that helps.

[Dab]

As a general strategy, I always try to harass the enemies advance by having my cavalry manuever near them as soon as possible. They will turn to face you, move towards your cavalry and fire at you so it disorganizes their army a bit and they won't all arrive in mass at the postion you have chosen to defend. After the main engagement has started use cavalry to skulk around behind them and on their flanks so they keep turning and manuevering using up their action points.

Try to get enemy infantry to fire at your cavalry from 3 spaces away so they lose their fresh bonus.

If you know you are going to lose a battle from the start, don't bother attacking supply wagons, try to diminish their cavalry and artillery strength as much as possible; also don't get caught in line formation where you can't manuever and let infantry divisions get massacred.

"Advancing to the rear" works well until they take all the objectives; then you should retreat all your units off the map manually if possible before your WTF drops below zero.

[ptan54]

Thanks for the tips.

I have a new problem now - dealing with an arty heavy enemy. Russia / Prussia combined have 5 arty pieces against me, one is a heavy. I have 5 arty pieces myself but all are depleted (under 2000, it's been a few battles since the start of the scenario). I set up my line as usual, inf, arty, inf, arty. What invariably happens is their arty march into firing distance and deal a walloping 3000 casualties to my infantry (already in line with skirmishers). The next turn the infantry routs. I had flanked them with some inf and cav, but their arty is causing massive damage in my main line. In the end I won solely due to the defender advantage, passage of time favoured me, so I just avoided contact with their arty and ran down the clock, as they say in football. Before they retreated I nearly had my entire army panic and run, but Nappy and Davout rallied some routers just in time to hang on. End result was 40,000 dead for me and 50,000 dead for them. Not happy about the result.

Question for the detailed combat experts: How do you deal with this kind of battle? If you have your infantry in your rear, away from their arty, you expose your arty to their cavalry. If you send out your cavalry early, it gets shot to pieces trying to charge their guns, they get disordered and surrounded by enemy inf. They have pretty high morale too so it's not likely one charge can rout or capture their arty. I can send the battle save game for those who are interested...

[ShaiHulud]

A couple of points for the defense against arty-

Defending from hill is superior because enemy fire damage is usually less.

Defending directly BEHIND connected wooded areas makes it difficult for enemy arty to target your units. The cost in movement points to enter an enemy zoc AND woods is often too high for enemy units to move unless they are in column. And, if they are in column, 1. they can't change formation in woods, 2. they take more and do less damage. Not to mention that you can get reaction fire on them as they move in with most of THEIR movement points exhausted in the move.

Sometimes villages are clumped together and can be used in a similar manner. The same movement difficulties are incurred by enemy units trying to enter zoc/village hexes.

Use of muddy hexes as a barrier can both retard enemy movement and provide lucrative targets if the enemy is so unwise as to stop in them. I suggest 2 or 3 hexes back from muddy areas while on defense. If the enemy crosses thru the mud to approach you, he uses up movement points and reduces the damage to a reaction fire from you. If you set up 3 hexes back, enemy arty will have great difficulty approaching without suffering reaction fire first, in column.

[ptan54]

I had deployed my arty in a cluster of villages, with infantry in line in some villages around it. Still got whipped badly. I'll post a screenshot of the setup when I get home.

[steveh11Matrix]

I know what it stands for in this game, but I can't be the only one who sees "WTF" and instantly translates it as something else...[:D]

Steve.

[Franck]

My solution to beat Artillery heavy army is to defend hills... If that fails, go for Riflemen (Jager, light infantry at worst) in woods with woodsmen and (sniper???) upgrade... You should take em out...

But Artillery is a B****. Against the CPU, if you want to exploit the system you can always hunt the artilley down at nigth with a couple of cavs... You'll most likely capture it. Then turn it on the ennemy in the morning I like that one, but since it almost always work I do not do it because I feel like it's an exploit.

[Joram]

I don't think that's an exploit. You are most likely sacrificing your cav in exchange for the artillery. You won't lose your cav of course but if they are not rested, then they are severely limited in their offensive capability the next day. Even worse, they could be disordered and be completely useless.

[Franck]

Well depending on how quick you capture/render useless the CAV, you are right...

But just by beieng on the field Cavalry, even if disordered can be a pain... (And I always found artillery to be much more a pain in the **** than cav)

[Franck]

Oh and the reason I think it's an exploit is because even if a cav or Inf is one hex away from making you unable to charge it won't move, because the CPU only rest at nigth... If it did try to protect it's Art (by only mocing 2 inf next to it) I wouldn't feel it's an exploit.

[ShaiHulud]

Ptan- The only problem with infantry in villages is that, if forced by cav into square, their only option while in that hex is column. A good idea is to have a reserve unit, in line, prepared to replace it quickly.

For the same reason, I like to place arty in villages. Don't have to be worried about going into square and they get a supply point each turn.