Originally posted by dpstafford
Shouldn't be, but there are. If this rule were properly coded, and all TF's docked upon arrival at their DH and/or home base, we might have a solution to the submarine "problem".
What submarine problem exactly ? AFAIK, a TF docked in a port (size >3) is never attacked.
However, before arriving in the port, the TF must cross the port hex ... and can be attacked by subs at that time
It happens sometimes that a TF is not docked while in a port hex, maybe because the TF just arrived at the end of the last turn and so didn't have op. points left for docking ?
BTW, Luganville is a size 2 port at the beginning of the game ... and so TF docked in this port very vulnerable to subs attacks
What submarine problem exactly ? AFAIK, a TF docked in a port (size >3) is never attacked.
However, before arriving in the port, the TF must cross the port hex ... and can be attacked by subs at that time
It happens sometimes that a TF is not docked while in a port hex, maybe because the TF just arrived at the end of the last turn and so didn't have op. points left for docking ?
BTW, Luganville is a size 2 port at the beginning of the game ... and so TF docked in this port very vulnerable to subs attacks
Spooky
The manual says if they're docked or at anchor they're safe. Are you saying subs can intercept them before they reach port because it is their destination hex whereas subs can't intercept a TF moving through it's hex in open water if that TF doesn't end it's turn in that hex?
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester
What submarine problem exactly ? AFAIK, a TF docked in a port (size >3) is never attacked.
However, before arriving in the port, the TF must cross the port hex ... and can be attacked by subs at that time
It happens sometimes that a TF is not docked while in a port hex, maybe because the TF just arrived at the end of the last turn and so didn't have op. points left for docking ?
BTW, Luganville is a size 2 port at the beginning of the game ... and so TF docked in this port very vulnerable to subs attacks
Spooky
This is very interesting info (I didn't see this in UV manual)...
"Spooky" have you placed this in your UV Strategy Guide yet?
It happens sometimes that a TF is not docked while in a port hex, maybe because the TF just arrived at the end of the last turn and so didn't have op. points left for docking ?
...
Spooky
I don't see this anywhere in the manual either. The manual does say operations points "...reflect the time spent on refueling, replenishing ammo, and loading and unloading of cargo." It says nothing about docking or anchoring taking ops points. In fact it says elsewhere that TF's loading or unloading will automatically dock. That implies no extra points for docking/anchoring or that those points are already reflected in how quickly you start to load or unload.
If you are correct then every TF arriving in a port, regardless of size, should be subject to attack since you wouldn't be able to manually give them orders to dock or anchor until the turn after they arrive. That clearly contradicts the manual regarding automatic docking.
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester
I don't see this anywhere in the manual either. The manual does say operations points "...reflect the time spent on refueling, replenishing ammo, and loading and unloading of cargo." It says nothing about docking or anchoring taking ops points. In fact it says elsewhere that TF's loading or unloading will automatically dock. That implies no extra points for docking/anchoring or that those points are already reflected in how quickly you start to load or unload.
If you are correct then every TF arriving in a port, regardless of size, should be subject to attack since you wouldn't be able to manually give them orders to dock or anchor until the turn after they arrive. That clearly contradicts the manual regarding automatic docking.
TFs automatically dock when in friendly hex port ... but not always when they just arrive in the port - ie : a transport TF that just arrived in the destination port but has not yet begun to unload is quite often "at sea" instead of being "docked". However, I never saw such a TF being attacked by subs so these TF are probably automatically docked before the sub attack pulse ...
However, each TF arriving in a port hex (even a size 9 port) could (but of course not "should") be attacked by sub ... otherwise we would never see the subs going into the dangerous shallow waters of ports This attack can only happen during the "arrival" turn if the port size >= 3
TFs automatically dock when in friendly hex port ... but not always when they just arrive in the port - ie : a transport TF that just arrived in the destination port but has not yet begun to unload is quite often "at sea" instead of being "docked". However, I never saw such a TF being attacked by subs so these TF are probably automatically docked before the sub attack pulse ...
However, each TF arriving in a port hex (even a size 9 port) could (but of course not "should") be attacked by sub ... otherwise we would never see the subs going into the dangerous shallow waters of ports This attack can only happen during the "arrival" turn if the port size >= 3
Spooky
That sounds reasonable but it isn't what RevRick was talking about when he said:
"This turn, one IJN sub creeps into an anchorage area brimming with USN tincans with the lastest ASW weps, only one of which responded, and they put torpedos into two cruisers."
Maybe he wasn't speaking literally about the "anchorage" or maybe it was L'ville at level 2. Just trying to clarify wheter the game is working as advertised in the manual or not.
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester
That sounds reasonable but it isn't what RevRick was talking about when he said:
"This turn, one IJN sub creeps into an anchorage area brimming with USN tincans with the lastest ASW weps, only one of which responded, and they put torpedos into two cruisers."
Maybe he wasn't speaking literally about the "anchorage" or maybe it was L'ville at level 2. Just trying to clarify wheter the game is working as advertised in the manual or not.
Yep, probably Let's wait for RevRick to tell us where it happened ?
I get it now... it is not explicitly said in manual that submarines
can't attacks ships in port that is =>3 (it was just hinted
implicitly)...
In other words ports <3 can't have ships at anchor (you can't
disband TF) and their docking capability is very small so all TF
there are valid targets for enemy submarines.
If port is =>3 enemy subs only attack TF that pass through port
Hex and can't attack docked TFs (nor anchored)...
Inspite of a bad day at Black Rock, here's what happened. I had a Surface Action TF (4 CA, 1 CL, 6 DD, and a Transport TF (6 AP, 4 DD, 2 DMS) at Lunga - port built up to two. I know their not immune in level two or less ports - but with a total of twelve possible ASW assets of varying degrees of TOA - a Squadron of Hudsons on ASW patrol - 1K feet - 80%, and a squadron of stranded TBF's on ASW patrol - same settings. It would seem that more than one of these guys would have a watch stationed and a sub screen in effect. One attack I can see - especially the one at night - but to come back several hours later, in daylight, and trash another CA in the same spot with all of that stuff floating and flying seems a bit improbable. So far, the only time any ASW ships in the USN - no matter who is in command, know about a sub present is by special delivery of a Type 95, usually at about 45 kts.. Then they drop two DC's and run in circles, screaming and shouting.
Had two Hunter Killer groups, four ships each - on one sub - the IJN boat managed to kill one and send two others creeping to port, in one turn. Folks, the IJN are not running 688 boats. Four tin cans should be able to keep a single I boat at bay, let alone make the crew have a singular headache and pounding of eardrums for a while - if not try to breathe H20. This is getting frustrating because all my subs are good at is being very attractive to IJN DC's - couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle. Is anyone having this kind of luck? I know about the Mk 14 torpedos, but even the Mk 10's are not doing worth a flip against even thin skinned ships, and they didn't have the faulty triggers.
"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
I have a PBEM game going where my subs have put a damaged CV and a CA to the bottom, as well as hit several APs and another CA.
So they will hit targets if in the right place. And I find working them in groups helps quite a bit. Work around a port like Rabaul, setting up on the port with a boat or two, and then one turn move distance in a couple of directions with another boat or two.
Once a boat gets spotted in the harbor, move it out and another in.
If the port gets heavy traffic, you will get some opportunities.
If you piecemeal your subs around the map, you won't get much at all.
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC
Originally posted by CBase Of all the features of UV, having to set the altitude for aircraft is my least favorite. It would seem to me that this detail should be outside the game player's control. Currently, it seems to be a guessing game as to what is the best altitude for many missions, including ASW.
I agree CBase.
Squadron or Group commanders make these tactical decisions based on local variables .
I would like to see the player have an input such as Higher Command would,like a selection for harrasment,Normal ops. ,Maxium effort and low level attack (for skip bombing and barge attacks).
Let's wait for RevRick to tell us where it happened ?
