Holy &#!$%!

[barbarossa2]

I just saw this in my reading in Jomini's the Art of War... did anyone know this?

"In order to make this article complete, I must state what is to be gained by using a system of signals. Of these there are several kinds. Telegraphic signals may be mentioned as the most important of all. Napoleon owes his astonishing success at Ratisbon, in 1809, to the fact of his having established a telegraphic communication between the head-quarters of the army and France. He was still at Paris when the Austrian army crossed the Inn at Braunau with the intention of invading Bavaria and breaking through his line of cantonments. Informed, in twenty-four hours, of what was passing [Pg 275]at a distance of seven hundred miles, he threw himself into his traveling-carriage, and a week later he had gained two victories under the walls of Ratisbon. Without the telegraph, the campaign would have been lost. This single fact is sufficient to impress us with an idea of its value."

I had read just a tiny bit about this about a month ago, but to read this from Jomini is interesting.

Does anyone know more about this "telegraph" system?

[Mus]

I know that Napoleon used a "semaphore" system whereby critical messages would be relayed at very high speed across the empire by way of flags and light signals.

Stations would be as far apart as they could be while still having line of sight to each station up and down the chain.

This is probably a reference to a non electric telegraph of that type, rather than what most people think of the when they read "telegraph" as in the electric type perfected by Morse.

I would be interested if theres any further quotations talking about anything technical in nature regarding this "telegraph" system.

[barbarossa2]

I understood it to be a light and semaphore system. But I didn't realize he was capable of achieving that kind of speed. And in my previous brief encounter with this system, I had learned that the system went to Mainz and stopped. Very fascinating indeed.

This is the rest of Jomini's entry on signals...

"[font="times new roman"]It has been proposed to use portable telegraphs. Such a telegraphic arrangement, operated by men on horseback posted on high ground, could communicate the orders of the center to the extremities of a line of battle, as well as the reports of the wings to the head-quarters. Repeated trials of it were made in Russia; but the project was given up,—for what reason, however, I have not been able to learn. These communications could only be very brief, and in misty weather the method could not be depended upon. A vocabulary for such purposes could be reduced to a few short phrases, which might easily be represented by signs. I think it a method by no means useless, even if it should be necessary to send duplicates of the orders by officers capable of transmitting them with accuracy. There would certainly be a gain of rapidity.[/font][font="times new roman"][39][/font][font="times new roman"] attempt of another kind was made in 1794, at the battle of Fleurus, where General Jourdan made use of the services of a balloonist to observe and give notice of the movements of the Austrians. I am not aware that he found the method a very useful one, as it was not again used; but it was claimed at the time that it assisted in gaining him the victory: of this, however, I have great doubts.[/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]"It is probable that the difficulty of having a balloonist in readiness to make an ascension at the proper moment, and of his making careful observations upon what is going on below, whilst floating at the mercy of the winds above, has led to the abandonment of this method of gaining information. By giving the balloon no great elevation, sending up with it an officer capable of forming correct opinions as to the enemy's movements, and perfecting a system of signals to be used in connection with the balloon, considerable advantages might be expected from its use. Sometimes the smoke of the battle, [Pg 276][/font][font="times new roman"]and the difficulty of distinguishing the columns, that look like liliputians, so as to know to which party they belong, will make the reports of the balloonists very unreliable. For example, a balloonist would have been greatly embarrassed in deciding, at the battle of Waterloo, whether it was Grouchy or Blücher who was seen coming up by the Saint-Lambert road; but this uncertainty need not exist where the armies are not so much mixed. I had ocular proof of the advantage to be derived from such observations when I was stationed in the spire of Gautsch, at the battle of Leipsic; and Prince Schwarzenberg's aid-de-camp, whom I had conducted to the same point, could not deny that it was at my solicitation the prince was prevailed upon to emerge from the marsh between the Pleisse and the Elster. An observer is doubtless more at his ease in a clock-tower than in a frail basket floating in mid-air; but steeples are not always at hand in the vicinity of battle-fields, and they cannot be transported at pleasure.[/font]

[font="times new roman"]"There is still another method of signaling, by the use of large fires kindled upon elevated points of the country. Before the invention of the telegraph, they afforded the means of transmitting the news of an invasion from one end of the country to the other. The Swiss have made use of them to call the militia to arms. They have been also used to give the alarm to winter quarters and to assemble the troops more rapidly. The signal-fires may be made still more useful if arranged so as to indicate to the corps of the army the direction of the enemy's threatening movements and the point where they should concentrate to meet him. These signals may also serve on sea-coasts to give notice of descents.[/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]"Finally, there is a kind of signals given to troops during an action, by means of military instruments. This method of signals has been brought to greater perfection in the Russian army than in any other I know of. While I am aware of the great importance of discovering a sure method of setting in motion simultaneously a large mass of troops at the will of the commander, I am convinced that it must be a long time before the problem is solved. Signals with instruments are of little use except for skirmishers. A move[Pg 277][/font][font="times new roman"]ment of a long line of troops may be made nearly simultaneous by means of a shout begun at one point and passed rapidly from man to man; but these shouts seem generally to be a sort of inspiration, and are seldom the result of an order. I have seen but two cases of it in thirteen campaigns."[/font]

[Randomizer]

The English maintained a shuttle telegraph system from their major ports to London and when the Channel Fleet mutinied at Spithead in 1797, the initial warning signal reached the Admiralty 75-miles away in three minutes.
 
(Cited in "The Great Mutiny" by James Dugan)
 
Best Regards

[saintsup]

It's the "télégraphe de Chappe" system. Put in operation during the revolution.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9graphe_de_Chappe

Sorry, it's in french.

[barbarossa2]

Wow. Saintsup. Thanks so much! How interesting!

[Anthropoid]

Three-minutes eh? Sounds like globalization started a long time ago.

[morganbj]

Frankly, I didn't know Al Gore was that old.

[Anthropoid]

Don't call me Frank Lee I'm Sure Lee!

[morganbj]

[:-]
 

[barbarossa2]

So this is what the system looked like. These towers were spaced roughly 11 km apart. And signal characters could be transimitted at the speed of 183 km/hour. Fascinating.

[WallysWorld]

I read about this early messaging system last year and found it very interesting.

Napoleon was no slouch when it came recognizing new technology.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Frankly, I didn't know Al Gore was that old.

LoL.

[ShaiHulud]

If you had read the Hornblower series you would have heard of it..hehe

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: ShaiHulud

If you had read the Hornblower series you would have heard of it..hehe

Hehe you beat me to it [;)]
Also in the TV-series with the same name Hornblower claims in one episode;
"in an hour they will know about us in Paris" as a signal tower starts signalling.

[ShaiHulud]

[;)]

Aye..that was a good series, though, a bit dated in the graphics.