Enemy spotting questions

[Droop21]

I'm getting a bit fustrated by my invisible opposing troops. I'm playing a campaign as allied against the AI. I have the impression that whereas when my troops fire too long from the same position, they get spotted (which I can understand), entrenched German troops remain invisble, regardless of how long they fire and the number of troops close by. The latest exemple was during the am turn on Juno (might be Gold) where there were 2 German squads that fired nearly continuously at my troops for the whole 12' the battle lasted and that were never spotted, even by infantry less than 20m away. [&:]
As strategic fire is significantly less effective than direct fire at the target, is there a way to increase the chances of spotting those bl**y MG.

[RD Oddball]

I'll point out your post to the right person Droop and we'll get back to you with an explanation or plans to fix.
 
The first quesion we'd need answered is if this is daytime battles as well as night?  Or just one or the other?  Which?  You cited one example of an am turn but that is the night turn or first day turn?

[Droop21]

Thanks. It was during the day

[panzerlehr62]

Hello Droop,

I love the fact they stay concealed as long as they do. Yes it seems frustrating at times, but it rewards the teams that stay put and don't give away there location by moving (even the fact that you are close by and still can't seem to locate them).

Once you understand that this is part of the game, setup your attacking units in away to seek out contact and then outflank and assault the position. Also keep constant indirect fire on that position while you are doing this to suppress them. Speed is the key here also. That's why its important when you are attacking on a map, to take key sections of it at a time. I always try to look at a map as pieces or jumping off areas. Take what you can and use that area to attack from the next time you play it (talking campaigns and H2H).

I can tell you this much, they do become visible. You just have to make it happen! Being in a position were you can not move because you did not prepare(not you personally, but in general), is not the games fault. You only have 15 teams, use them wisely! Dam I love this game... [:)]

Gz...

[RD Oddball]

I've looked at it like panzerleher62 and like the new play style... but to answer your question...

The programmer said that being within 30m proximity of enemy units will cause them to go to hand to hand so it's unlikely that 20m was the distance you were away from the enemy and unable to spot them.  If not it's a bug and we'd need to see a screenshot of it to help suss out the problem as well as a detailed description of what was going on. (team types involved, movement type they were executing at the time, other conditions like what kind of fire they were under, etc.)  He went on to say "(he might have trouble seeing the enemy)[font=arial]Possibly if there was only 1 man left in the German team and his (own) teams were suppressed or panicked or something.  Otherwise, if there was a general problem with units being impossible to spot I believe we would have seen it.  Does he have some modified elements.txt, maybe?  If someone maxed out the concealment values maybe the troops can’t see into the terrain the Germans are in.[/font]

I'm guessing you didn't make any modifications to any of the files or utilize any files other than the ones that came with the release. Are you using the first beta patch?

I hope this helps Droop. Please post again if you have other questions or comments.

[Droop21]

Thanks for the info [:)]. I haven't modified anything (too much of a newbie to fool around with such things yet [;)]). On the 20m, I could be wrong, or it might be that my team got slaughtered too rapidly. If I get into another situation below the 30m limit, I'll post a screen (might take some time as I'm on a business trip and they block program installations [:(])

I have a question following panzerlher62's comment. What is the impact of a troops movement (from stopped to running) on both their capacity to spot and their vulnerability to small arms fire. I was under the impression that my teams running to the hidden location (probably without sufficient suppressing fire) got wiped out by those SMG faster than I could count to 2.

[panzerlehr62]

Droop,

Troops do get wiped out faster then you can count to 2. Try to avoid running in then open. Not only will a Mg get you, but 1 lucky mortar round will be a killer too. Again I am talking GC (H2H), you really have to look over the map carefully. I will charge a building when I know pretty much no other crossfire will be involved and when I have brought enuff units into place to keep some fire on the area (still iffy what the results will be). I will lose a unit or two or three sometimes, but the key is to take that spot and knock out the team you are attacking(remember, don't bring a knife (one rifle team) to a gun fight(MG)!). Try to use rows of buildings to move up with, also try to attack that spot from at least 2 sides (three works the best). Again, I have had high loses, but the key is taking out teams and gaining ground(when attacking). When you are playing under a time frame (be it game time or just the fact you only have 20 turns(GC)), to me speed is the key (specially when you have a large BG). When you factor in that most maps take many turns to gain control of, its a must to win thous small battles to gain a better jumping off spot for the next time you battle on that map (sometimes it may be just 1 building, due to the fact you cant afford to lose a lot of teams or it dominates next stage of your advance (great example of that is last battle I just finished in Amfreville, were the whole battle was fought over 1 building).

Also remember once your first team enters that building with the invisible enemy, the enemy will become visible for the rest of your surrounding teams, and that is how you make them visible(hopefully you have enuf support to kill them)!. [:D]

Gz...