Should submarines get armor ratings?

[Dili]

Example:

Commander McIntyre having just decided to take a rest, was called to the bridge and pronounced it a non-sub, but he changed his mind when after passing over the contact the echo reappeared on a different course, the ship was immediately turned and rushed in at speed to drop a full pattern of depth charges, and to everyones surprise shortly after the U-Boat broke surface. Once again it was proved that the main armament of 3 inch guns were useless their shells once again bounced off the U-Boat, but the close range guns were picking off the crew of the U-Boat as they scrambled out of the conning tower, its survivors were picked up with the help of the ships searchlight, and within minutes the U 269 slid stern first to the bottom of the channel.

http://www.captainclassfrigates.co.uk/ops/5eg.html

[kaleun]

I guess so.
At least the U-boats[8|]

[rtrapasso]

Folks have tried mods with armor ratings on subs... the game engine did not handle it well.

[Dili]

Thanks rtrapasso.

[jwilkerson]

After seeing a destroyer sunk by PT boat 50 cals ... I asked the same question ... our "resident expert" on (in game) naval devices (tankerace) recommended against it ... so you still might see a very rare event such as this.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Folks have tried mods with armor ratings on subs... the game engine did not handle it well.

Subs don't really have armor..., but the thick cylindrical pressure hull could provide a good imitation.

[engineer]

It seems to me that the question is whether the structural steel necessary for a given hull would have enough thickness to stop small caliber rounds.  A 0.50 cal would punch through a fishing boat converted to a minesweeper, but will it penetrate the hull of the Queen Mary?  Consequently some large merchant ships might warrant some nominal "armor" to proof them against machine guns just based on the marine engineering that went into their design.  Subs are special because the pressure hull gives some protection on the surface, but at depth, it's the overpressure from the depth charges that can rupture the hull and I can see where you might have to dig into the engine instead of just simple mods to get that right.
 

[XENXEN]

Are there "Armour" not represented by there high durability in the game ??

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: engineer

It seems to me that the question is whether the structural steel necessary for a given hull would have enough thickness to stop small caliber rounds.  A 0.50 cal would punch through a fishing boat converted to a minesweeper, but will it penetrate the hull of the Queen Mary?  Consequently some large merchant ships might warrant some nominal "armor" to proof them against machine guns just based on the marine engineering that went into their design. 

According to what i've read from current Naval special forces accounts, a .50 cal (sniper) rifle is enough to shoot through the hull of a freighter and disable the engine with a few shots.

Also, at least one DD was of Wake (supposedly) sunk by a .50 mg gun (strafing attack) - the mg round(s) hit a torpedo and touched it off, sinking the ship... we've also had the example (recently given on the forum) of the Brazilian CL sinking itself with a 20 mm gun (by shooting into its own depth charges)...

So, even though it was a rare event, sinking a fair size warship by MGs could and did happen.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: engineer

It seems to me that the question is whether the structural steel necessary for a given hull would have enough thickness to stop small caliber rounds.  A 0.50 cal would punch through a fishing boat converted to a minesweeper, but will it penetrate the hull of the Queen Mary?  Consequently some large merchant ships might warrant some nominal "armor" to proof them against machine guns just based on the marine engineering that went into their design. 

According to what i've read from current Naval special forces accounts, a .50 cal (sniper) rifle is enough to shoot through the hull of a freighter and disable the engine with a few shots.

Also, at least one DD was of Wake (supposedly) sunk by a .50 mg gun (strafing attack) - the mg round(s) hit a torpedo and touched it off, sinking the ship... we've also had the example (recently given on the forum) of the Brazilian CL sinking itself with a 20 mm gun (by shooting into its own depth charges)...

So, even though it was a rare event, sinking a fair size warship by MGs could and did happen.

Given the Japanese warships (some) carried the Long Lance Torpedo's - wouldn't it be a possibility to have say a P-40 on a strafing attack set off the warheads? I managed to hit a Japanese DD with a 250lb bomb and seen the "Torpedoe tube destroyed" and questioned if it would sink it or not. I can't remember if it did, however I would think thats a critical damage hit.

Imagine what would happen if we had the B-25-H with 75mm pack howitzer, what happens when a single round hits a rack of depth charges. Probability would be extremely low this ever happened, nevertheless a possibility.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: engineer

It seems to me that the question is whether the structural steel necessary for a given hull would have enough thickness to stop small caliber rounds.  A 0.50 cal would punch through a fishing boat converted to a minesweeper, but will it penetrate the hull of the Queen Mary?  Consequently some large merchant ships might warrant some nominal "armor" to proof them against machine guns just based on the marine engineering that went into their design. 

According to what i've read from current Naval special forces accounts, a .50 cal (sniper) rifle is enough to shoot through the hull of a freighter and disable the engine with a few shots.

Also, at least one DD was of Wake (supposedly) sunk by a .50 mg gun (strafing attack) - the mg round(s) hit a torpedo and touched it off, sinking the ship... we've also had the example (recently given on the forum) of the Brazilian CL sinking itself with a 20 mm gun (by shooting into its own depth charges)...

So, even though it was a rare event, sinking a fair size warship by MGs could and did happen.

Given the Japanese warships (some) carried the Long Lance Torpedo's - wouldn't it be a possibility to have say a P-40 on a strafing attack set off the warheads? I managed to hit a Japanese DD with a 250lb bomb and seen the "Torpedoe tube destroyed" and questioned if it would sink it or not. I can't remember if it did, however I would think thats a critical damage hit.

Imagine what would happen if we had the B-25-H with 75mm pack howitzer, what happens when a single round hits a rack of depth charges. Probability would be extremely low this ever happened, nevertheless a possibility.

The DD that had his LL disabled didn´t sink (at least not because the LL went off). It only lost it´s weapon, this didn´t create and fire, float or sys damage. Of course the bomb itself die create damage as a DD isn´t bomb prove.

[DuckofTindalos]

Didn't sink, huh? That's funny, history seems to think there were TWO Japanese destroyers sunk in the first invasion attempt at Wake. Guess you were wrong, as usual.

The Hayate was sunk by coastal guns, and the Kisaragi by air attack, although there's some controversy as to whether or not the fatal explosion occurred at the middle or rear of the ship. Either way, none of the two ships carried those oh-so-fantastic[8|] Long Lances.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Didn't sink, huh? That's funny, history seems to think there were TWO Japanese destroyers sunk in the first invasion attempt at Wake. Guess you were wrong, as usual.

The Hayate was sunk by coastal guns, and the Kisaragi by air attack, although there's some controversy as to whether or not the fatal explosion occurred at the middle or rear of the ship. Either way, none of the two ships carried those oh-so-fantastic[8|] Long Lances.

I guess you are the usual stupid asshole that you were born as. Knowing about the consequences I tell you now something once and for all you stinking stupid rat:

PISS OFF!

Use the green button on me or do whatever you want. Heck, with the Matrix friends you seemingly have found you seem to be allowed to do whatever you want anyway you stupid dork. Amazingly enough that the only one that has been a pain in the a$$ on this forum for years manages to become a friend of the moderators that obviously allow him to piss off people in the dozen weekly. How stupid are you really?

I answered Misconducts statement you silly guy:

I managed to hit a Japanese DD with a 250lb bomb and seen the "Torpedoe tube destroyed" and questioned if it would sink it or not. I can't remember if it did, however I would think thats a critical damage hit.

so now tell me what was wrong about my replay:

The DD that had his LL disabled didn´t sink (at least not because the LL went off). It only lost it´s weapon, this didn´t create any fire, float or sys damage. Of course the bomb itself did create damage as a DD isn´t bomb prove.


I didn´t know that someone would refer to sys, flt and fire damage when speaking about historic events. But perhaps you do it like that, hey Arizone suffered 93 sys, 48 fire and the 100 flt put her down... [8|] I do only for in game events, of which I obviously know more than you do, while you have tried to comment ingame things all the time, you have more or less no clue about them. Even more frustrating that you could influence AE. Scary.

gosh, get off me once and for all...

[DuckofTindalos]

The difference between you and me, well one of many, is that I'm only wrong most of the time. You've never been right about anything.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The difference between you and me, well one of many, is that I'm only wrong most of the time. You've never been right about anything.

yeah for sure stupid geek. Hopefully I´m as helpful as you. Oh sorry, what you think would be helpful is in 99% cases stupid spam or other bullshit. And lucky me, I´m only one of many that thinks so.

[rtrapasso]

i will point out (once again): this is a game, not a faithful simulation of what went on in the war.

If you lose a DD to a freak encounter with a PT boat, maybe you could just IMAGINE the DD was sunk by having a torpedo being hit by a MG round, rather than fretting that the game engine did not generate a report that a torpedo was hit and then exploded...

There are plenty of things in the game that don't make sense in terms of real life that are in the game that people don't seem to notice: i.e. - fighters didn't break off when the bombers drop their bombs springs to mind.

If you use a little imagination, things in the game don't seem nearly so bothersome... however, when you have MAJOR things go wrong, sometimes you need a lot more imagination (such as Mandrake's AAR where he had a Stargate transport a brigade across the map... [X(] [:'(] )

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The difference between you and me, well one of many, is that I'm only wrong most of the time. You've never been right about anything.

Well, obviously, among the many differences between you and Castor Troy, is that the latter is a helpful, polite, courteous, respectful, civilized, interesting guy. Who is really pissed off by your rude, impolite, insulting behaviour.


And so that you're not surprised, official complain has been sent to the moderators.

[rtrapasso]

Guys: let's cool it...

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i will point out (once again): this is a game, not a faithful simulation of what went on in the war.

If you lose a DD to a freak encounter with a PT boat, maybe you could just IMAGINE the DD was sunk by having a torpedo being hit by a MG round, rather than fretting that the game engine did not generate a report that a torpedo was hit and then exploded...

There are plenty of things in the game that don't make sense in terms of real life that are in the game that people don't seem to notice: i.e. - fighters didn't break off when the bombers drop their bombs springs to mind.

If you use a little imagination, things in the game don't seem nearly so bothersome... however, when you have MAJOR things go wrong, sometimes you need a lot more imagination (such as Mandrake's AAR where he had a Stargate transport a brigade across the map... [X(] [:'(] )

Incorrect sir, he used the U.S.S enterprise and had scotty beam them up. Question when does the transporters enter the game? 8/41?

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i will point out (once again): this is a game, not a faithful simulation of what went on in the war.

If you lose a DD to a freak encounter with a PT boat, maybe you could just IMAGINE the DD was sunk by having a torpedo being hit by a MG round, rather than fretting that the game engine did not generate a report that a torpedo was hit and then exploded...

There are plenty of things in the game that don't make sense in terms of real life that are in the game that people don't seem to notice: i.e. - fighters didn't break off when the bombers drop their bombs springs to mind.

If you use a little imagination, things in the game don't seem nearly so bothersome... however, when you have MAJOR things go wrong, sometimes you need a lot more imagination (such as Mandrake's AAR where he had a Stargate transport a brigade across the map... [X(] [:'(] )

Incorrect sir, he used the U.S.S enterprise and had scotty beam them up. Question when does the transporters enter the game? 8/41?

[:D] [:D]

Well, this was his prior AAR (not the current one)... Mandrake went to some trouble to recreate the Stargate Portal design into the AAR...

As for the USS Enterprise (NCC1701 or whatever): she was clearly capable of time travel... so transporters could enter the game at any time. [:'(]