Allies and resources

[vinnie71]

Is it worth it for the allied player to try and transport oil and resources from DEI to india and Australia? Does the industry actually turn these resources into supplies or fuel?

I'm asking coz I just had the bulk of the British tanker fleet get caught by the Jap Carrier group at Balikpapan (sp?) and was sent to the bottom. I also have a large fleet of American freighters which I am sending to the south pacific from India and risk being sent to the bottom coz I delayed them to load up resources in Batavia.

BTW my Hudsons and Beuforts don't attack the carriers for some reason....

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Is it worth it for the allied player to try and transport oil and resources from DEI to india and Australia? Does the industry actually turn these resources into supplies or fuel?

I'm asking coz I just had the bulk of the British tanker fleet get caught by the Jap Carrier group at Balikpapan (sp?) and was sent to the bottom. I also have a large fleet of American freighters which I am sending to the south pacific from India and risk being sent to the bottom coz I delayed them to load up resources in Batavia.

BTW my Hudsons and Beuforts don't attack the carriers for some reason....

Yes and no. If you can do it without risk of getting your ships sunk, then by all means its worth it.

If there is risk then frankly the few supplies / fuel / resources / oil you would deny to the Japs isnt worth the points.

[khyberbill]

BTW my Hudsons and Beuforts don't attack the carriers for some reason....

They will attack once their exp goes up and as long as they have sufficient escort. However it may take a bit of time before that happens.

[vinnie71]

Hmm so that's why they don't attack because I haven't got escorts with the bombers. Good to know because I tought that they would do so like when they attack other TFs.
 
How would PTs fair against the carrier fleet? Will they be torn to shreds for nothing?
 
BTW so raw materials and oil are actually transformed into supplies and fuel at the industrial bases in Down Under and India? I'm especially concerned with the fuel situation in Australia...

[rtrapasso]

Is it worth it for the allied player to try and transport oil and resources from DEI to india and Australia? Does the industry actually turn these resources into supplies or fuel?

Turning stuff into supplies requires you get them to a center with industry... unfortunately, you can NOT dump stuff in Darwin: it will just stay there in either stock of CHS or any other mod i know of... you generally need to move stuff to Perth or other major city to get it into the rail network (and stuff won't generally move from Perth to East Coast Oz, either.)

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Is it worth it for the allied player to try and transport oil and resources from DEI to india and Australia? Does the industry actually turn these resources into supplies or fuel?

I'm asking coz I just had the bulk of the British tanker fleet get caught by the Jap Carrier group at Balikpapan (sp?) and was sent to the bottom. I also have a large fleet of American freighters which I am sending to the south pacific from India and risk being sent to the bottom coz I delayed them to load up resources in Batavia.

BTW my Hudsons and Beuforts don't attack the carriers for some reason....

Answer is no, unless your playing the AI attempting to do this requires the american carriers to escort the ships, although the AI might not be smart enough to attempt to cut you off, my PBEM opponent did, and wrecked havoc on 2 of my CV's out of 4. Needless also - a handful of AK's and Tankers didn't make it and were gobbled up in the process, only good thing to come out of it was the British carriers linked with mine to go home.

My biggest problem was going from Darwin to DEI, which ran me through the gauntlet twice of betties and I ended up wasting another year rebuilding after that.

[engineer]

Once I had a single PT run into the Kido Butai off New Guinea.  The PT actually managed to survive by immediately breaking off action.  In another instance, a fairly sizable squadron found the KB and damaged a destroyer at the loss of a PT.  A couple of times, I've engaged and come up empty with only a sunk PT.  One time, I managed to run down a crippled carrier and it's escorting destroyer.  That was sweet and successful.

If the PT's are set to retire, I think the typical battle will involve the escorts shooting up the PT's and possibly a torpedo hit on an escorting destroyer.  My PT's have had their best success in sweeping Japanese ports to catch AK's, AP's, and TK with their escorts while loading or unloading.  It seems to me that Allied PT's are the hyenas of the seas.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: engineer

Once I had a single PT run into the Kido Butai off New Guinea.  The PT actually managed to survive by immediately breaking off action.  In another instance, a fairly sizable squadron found the KB and damaged a destroyer at the loss of a PT.  A couple of times, I've engaged and come up empty with only a sunk PT.  One time, I managed to run down a crippled carrier and it's escorting destroyer.  That was sweet and successful.

If the PT's are set to retire, I think the typical battle will involve the escorts shooting up the PT's and possibly a torpedo hit on an escorting destroyer.  My PT's have had their best success in sweeping Japanese ports to catch AK's, AP's, and TK with their escorts while loading or unloading.  It seems to me that Allied PT's are the hyenas of the seas.

even better, Have PT boats in the ports ready to rumble anytime a Japanese bombardment fleet arrives, had it happen twice in my last PBEM which both times poor Kongo became an Artificial reef.

[bradfordkay]

It is better to send the TKs and AKs in small TFs of one to three ships into the DEI ports for this purpose. LArge TFs seem to attract enemy attention and - dependant upon the size of the ships within the TF - can take a long time to load. Small ones might (just might, as I've lost plenty to the Betty/Nell scourge) be able to sneak in and out without being detected. If you have enough fighters to protect a large TF, then it might be worth trying, but otherwise I wouldn't make the attempt. 

[Feinder]

Over-all, I don't think it's worth the risk to your ships.  Frankly, in 1944, you're going to need every TK and AO you've got, to haul fuel for your massive fleet.  You can burn thru half-a-million fuel on one major operation (seriously).  And you need your AK to haul supplies and troops.
 
If you lose 30 - 40 AK/TKs in 1941 trying to haul out oil and resources, it's not worth it (IMO).
 
Now, if you can actually smuggle out resources and oil, that's great.  Just don't jeopardize a bunch of ships for it.  Anything you pull out, is denied to Japan.  Do you as allies actually need the stuff?  Not really.  I -can- be useful in Oz (SE near Bris/Sid).  Will give you some extra supplies that you would normally have to haul from the West Coast.  But hauling stuff out of NEI is more about denying it to Japan, than actually -needing- it.
 
But again, it's not worth lossing a bunch of ships over it.  You're going to need every transport and tanker you've got in 1944 and beyond (and yes, you DO get a lot of them, but you can never have enough).
 
-F-

[engineer]

Misconduct:
even better, Have PT boats in the ports ready to rumble anytime a Japanese bombardment fleet arrives, had it happen twice in my last PBEM which both times poor Kongo became an Artificial reef.

 
True.  I was playing a campaign game as the Japanese vs. AI and then switched over to play the Allies vs. AI from September, 1942 on.  As the Japanese I killed a lot of ships and captured Hawaii and north China, but PM and Milne Bay got lost in the shuffle.  The AI loaded up MB with lots of supply and troops so when I inherited the position, I quickly had about 40 PT's operating out of that port.  Some squadrons remained on overwatch, other squadrons raided Buna, and some would head for the Coral Sea whenever the KB made a run at PM.  The AI, or a clumsy player, drifts into playing patterns and you can do a mid-ocean intercept. I lost a number of PT's, but at the end of the day, the exchange ratio in VP was heavily in my favor.   

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Is it worth it for the allied player to try and transport oil and resources from DEI to india and Australia? Does the industry actually turn these resources into supplies or fuel?

I'm asking coz I just had the bulk of the British tanker fleet get caught by the Jap Carrier group at Balikpapan (sp?) and was sent to the bottom. I also have a large fleet of American freighters which I am sending to the south pacific from India and risk being sent to the bottom coz I delayed them to load up resources in Batavia.

Against the AI yes. Against a human yes, but only use those ships that are already in the DEI or those that escape from the Phillipines. The chance that a single ship TFs can evade Jap seacrhes is quite high or there are better targets. If you create a single ship TF, spend one turn laoding a partial load then get the hell out at full speed. It is not advisable to go back.

[vinnie71]

Tnx guys.
 
I also found out something else. I noticed that disbanding TFs just confused the AI. It sent a carrier force protected by CAs near Balikapan. I just disbanded the bulk of TFs in the DEI except those around Batavia and Palembang. Now the Jap fleet is sitting there doing nothing with the carriers seemingly vanished and just the CAs remaining moving slowly. I'm not sure why but I think that the CAs ran out of fuel or something and so I'm concentrating all my PTs and some strike aircraft within range to try to damage them so that I slow them down even further. Hopefully my CVs from Hawaii will make it on time to help though I'm keeping an American TF consisting of 2 CAs, 2CLs and 6 destroyers ready to mop up any stragglers. Just hope my bombers cause some damage first though ...

[John Lansford]

Your scouting reports just aren't seeing the carriers; trust me they are still in that TF.
 
As for disbanding ships and 'hiding' them in the port, it works against the AI but only for a while.  The AI sets its strike aircraft for naval attacks and/or airfield attacks, rarely will they set for port strikes.  However, if they hang around an area for very long with ships in the port, they will eventually set for port attacks.  I disbanded a massive amount of ships at Darwin when the entire KB came wandering by and they were not attacked, but later on when the KB came past Lunga they plastered the AS and other ships I had disbanded there.
 
I second the comment about sending TF's of 1-3 ships to ports within airstrike range to pick up oil.  Don't worry about resources; there are plenty of them, just grab oil.  I send 1-2 tankers up to Balikpapan every week even though the airbase there gets hit daily from planes based at Samarinda and Tawi-Tawi.   If I send larger TF's they get hit, but only one or two ships are left alone.  Same at Sorong and Amboina; two tankers will get no attacks, more than that and the Bettys show up.

[vinnie71]

Tnx for the tip!
 
I got a massive amount of oil to move from Balikapan and Pem.... (well you know the one above Batavia) and they are well within striking distance of either the KB, or land based aircraft from either Singapore or Philippines. Since its early '42 I can't match them in the air but frankly I really need the oil for Australia. I'll try to run two large convoys from India, picking resources and oil on the way. Probably I'll take a round Australia trip to avoid the Japanese forces, even though it will take me a lot longer.
 
I also have withrawn my B17 Bombers from the Philippines and finally they are receiving some reinforcements. Hopefully they'll manage to inflict some damage to the Japanese force without being butchered...