NCC 1701 Enterprise Captain Kirk in command[:D] Klingon Bird of prey Japanese side hehehe[:D]
My point is I can do it via the editor,so I will it's a what if scenario,[;)]
A long time ago SSI had two space warfare games, Cosmic Balance I and Cosmic Balance II, one tactical, the other strategic, each having decent editors. I created a Pacific War type scenario for CBII, substituting appropriate spaceships for historical WW2 warships, but did not play it after I finished because I found out that it had a 'feature' in which extra unknown/unexplored planets/stars would materialize. This feature could not be turned off.
I also created a scenario for CB I that was the equivalent of the 1939 River Platte battle using space cruisers and battleships with the appropriate firepower and armor, that one turned out to be quite good.
But that wasn't the declared aim of the plan. Speculation is another thing.
Ok, than I agree. Fulfilling the Z-Plan in the intended timetable was nearly impossible. Just nearly because there was a shortliving attempt to found the necessary basis for that naval expansion. Wilhelm Treue explains it. If you've read his book, you know what I mean...
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
The big difference between the German naval build up before WWI and before WWII was the tank and the airplane. Germany could field a large army in 1914, alongside a largish navy, but there was no way she could have done it in 1939 or 1945, because she had to have an armoured force and an air force as well.
The Kriegsmarine recieved the highest priority after the introduction of the Z-PLan, but this was kept so for only about 1,5 or 2,5 month, don't remember exactly. To achieve the Z-Plan, materials were needed. These had to be taken from the Luftwaffe and Heer or had to be bought - to some extend.
The problem Germany was facing was apart from that chronical shortage in material - that any nation suffered at its own scale - the lack of shipyard and even more the lack of workers.
To fix the problem with the shipyards, two measures were thought and undertaken: The one was the building of new slipways at Wilhelmshafen. The navy facilitys there were to be expanded extensively for the H-class BBs and to build more ships simultaniously. THe other thing that was considered was to let all non-warships be build in Spain. National Spain had high debts afther the german help in the civil war and it was considered to let spain pay them back by building all the smaller ships like merchant ships, tugs etc. So far, many slipways capable of bulding large ships were used for civilian ships as well as big slipways were used to build two small ships on them simultaniously. If all available shipyards were to be used with high efficiancy and the anticipated expansion of Wilhelmshafen harbour went on, this problem may have been solved. Of course, this would've taken massive intervention by the government, high costs, etc...
The other problem were to workers. Many were involved in building tanks and planes. If this expansion was to be reduced significantly, some numbers can be freed. But that's not all. One might have educated new workers, but the german philosophy of "german perfectionism" was hindering this massively. Any worker has to be educated very well, had to pass several test while e.g. in Russia anyone able to hold blowpipe was tasked to use it. Just compare the bevel seams of german and russian tanks...
Moreover, there were also problems that didn't show up immediately. One problem was the critical lack of flats for the workers! It was tried to attract new workers to the shipyards, but they had to live in crude barracks and consequently quitted after rather short times. So even if there were the workers, there had to be great efforts to create living room for them...
All this might - who could ever know, we all know that historians may well debate even existing things widely, what about contra-facta history then? - have been solved, but the necessary effort was enormous. The Army and Luftwaffe would've starved meanwhile and the money to build all this had to come from somewhere...
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
Well I like all the German ships better than anything else so, Bismarck,Tirpitz Scharnhorst,Gneisenau,Admiral Graf Spee,Admiral Scheer & Lutzow along with all Heavy + Light cruisers, destroyers + U boats are being imported in to a new scenario of mine right now,will take some time to do but I want them included,so since I have the editor at my disposal that is exactly what I'm doing.[:D]
Seems a strange passtime as Bismarck, Graf Spee, Hipper, and most of the lighter ships were sunk well before the Pacific War began.., while Gneisinau and others were damaged beyond repair. And none of the rest were likely to survive a voyage to Japan in the face of the US and Royal Navies. Why not just put in some flying saucers?
OK, the only German or Italian ships you can realistically add are submarines and the AMC raiders.
Since they can be forced to withdraw, this is entirely possible. You can add in the Monsun boats, the early war raiders, etc and have them withdraw when they historically withdrew or sank.
As far as officers, while they would technically be 'Japanese' in game terms you could use the historical officer names.
It's certainly doable, but sending any real surface warships is just unrealistic.
Some Italians subs went to Japan and the Eritreia Sloop. But the curiosly the main reason to put Italians in WITP is in side of Allies. It is almost certain that there would be Italian warships in Pacific if Japan had to be invaded. There were 2 or 3 Italian cruisers based in South Africa patroling in 1944-45. There was research made with chariots for US Navy for an attack against Tokio like it was made agianst Alexandria, Gibraltar... While the British entertained briefy sending a Vittorio Veneto class to Pacific since their old BB's were almost breaking apart and Italian Government also wanted to show the flag with a big ship, the probable contribuition would be light cruisers and destroyers.
Some Italians subs went to Japan and the Eritreia Sloop. But the curiosly the main reason to put Italians in WITP is in side of Allies. It is almost certain that there would be Italian warships in Pacific if Japan had to be invaded. There were 2 or 3 Italian cruisers based in South Africa patroling in 1944-45. There was research made with chariots for US Navy for an attack against Tokio like it was made agianst Alexandria, Gibraltar... While the British entertained briefy sending a Vittorio Veneto class to Pacific since their old BB's were almost breaking apart and Italian Government also wanted to show the flag with a big ship, the probable contribuition would be light cruisers and destroyers.
Sounds like an extended war mod to me. [:D]
I'm not sure the Japanese player could hold out that long aganist a competent Allied player though.
I once did a mod with German and Italian ships for WITP. I used RHS as the basis and added All the german capital ships + Italian for the Japanese. This way i gave japan 5 new BBs 3 BCs 3 CV and about 15 CAs 10CLs plus added 20-25 DDs of the Akitsuki class and another 15 Shimakaze DDs. The CVs had Me-109 upgrading to FW-190s Plus Ju-87B upgrading to JU-87D. Got the artwork from various witp sites plus performance data from various mods. I added 5 Yamatos and 5 Shinanos. Gave the Japs Akagi and Amagi as CVS Plus Kaga and Tosa. KidoButai 1 was formed by 2 Akagis 2 Kagas and 2 Shokakus( Soryu and Hiryu).KidoButai 2 was formed by Shokaku and Zuikaku plus 2 other shokakus plus Junyo and Hiyo and they attacked Singapore. The rest of the CVLS attacked the Phillipines. Kidobutai 3 was formed by the Germans and Italians and their job was attacking Pearl Harbour Airfields while KB1 attacked the Port Facilities. The IJA got The Zero as their main fighter and removed the Zero bonus by swapping it with the Oscar wich replaced the Nates ( As i wanted the AI to be very strong and give me a challenge). I deleted the Jeans and the Claudes as well to make space. I had an interesting game up until Dec 1944 when I had to stop because AI decided to change all the aircraft into Kamikazes and had to stop the game it became to boring. The RHS scenario i used was EOS and was one of the early builds. The allies got the 3 CVs Arkroyal, Courageous and Glorius Plus Hms Hood. Hellcat arrivals was at 1/09/1942 and Singapore had 2 Squadrons of Spitfires VB.
One "fantasty senario, could be that Germany demands her pacific/African territories back and was appeased. She lets Japan keep what she has but then reinforces the rest.
I also did a senario in Hearts of Iron (have never even thought about that game since playing Witp!), where Germany won/stalemated WWI and retains possession of her territories. '
And to your "Germany gets the colonies back"
May be an option, but what fleet parts could be there? 1-2 Panzerschiffe, maybe 1 or 2 crusiers and 10 subs - not more.
There's no way leading around a full scale fantasy scenario to include the German (and Italian) fleet on the Japanese side. It should be declared this way and the Brits should recieve all of their fleet as well, but it might be interesting.
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
I see. This one was for Hoi2 Doomsday. HoI 3 comes out next month and will be really fine! Always good if you like some hours of "arcade" gaming [;)]
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
It's too bad AE didn't include an off-map area for Germany and/or the Axis Med! I'm not too sure about full blown German & Italy forces but, would like to see some things (aircraft, a few troops, some ships & subs) imported.
I'd like to see the historical evidence for any plan to have Italian warships fighting for the Allies in the Pacific during 1945-46. The words "far" and "fetched" just don't seem to be far or fetched enough...[8|]
You could have a campaign based on Harry Turtledove's "American Empire" series of books. With the German fleet built around modernized Mackensen & Yorck class BC's. They would however be on the American's side & that's probably not what Norm3 had in mind.
And to your "Germany gets the colonies back"
May be an option, but what fleet parts could be there? 1-2 Panzerschiffe, maybe 1 or 2 crusiers and 10 subs - not more.
There's no way leading around a full scale fantasy scenario to include the German (and Italian) fleet on the Japanese side. It should be declared this way and the Brits should recieve all of their fleet as well, but it might be interesting.
In my scenario I'm not only using all German & Italian fleets on the Japanese side, All British ships including the already sunk BB Royal Oak + Barham BC Hood CV Ark Royal etc are included,this scenario is for fun only not historical I just want to see what would happen plus since I'm from the UK all the ships have more meaning in my eyes.
Regards,
Graham.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
