Errata from 2008 WiF Annual

[Cheesehead]

I've recently been appraised of some significant rules changes to our game that apparently were introduced in the 2008 Annual. Some of these changes are very significant. For example, the new rule concerning air combat where backup fighters are now worth 1/10th their A2A value rather than 1 to the front fighters A2A value. This essentially makes CVP fighters the equal of LB fighters. This seems wrong considering that a CVP cost half and represents half the number of airplanes as a LB F2.

Some of the new rules I like, some I need to digest. My question is, are these new rules interpretations being implemented into MWIF?

For those of you not familiar, here is a link:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/wif ... ion/files/

scroll down to Errata from 2008 WiF Annual doc.

Cheers

John

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

I've recently been appraised of some significant rules changes to our game that apparently were introduced in the 2008 Annual. Some of these changes are very significant. For example, the new rule concerning air combat where backup fighters are now worth 1/10th their A2A value rather than 1 to the front fighters A2A value. This essentially makes CVP fighters the equal of LB fighters. This seems wrong considering that a CVP cost half and represents half the number of airplanes as a LB F2.

Some of the new rules I like, some I need to digest. My question is, are these new rules interpretations being implemented into MWIF?

For those of you not familiar, here is a link:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/wif ... ion/files/

scroll down to Errata from 2008 WiF Annual doc.

Cheers

John

Hi,
I don't think those will be implemented in MWiF1 even as optional options, but I may be wrong, I am just an observer. I even think that our developer does not know about them.

I don't understand why you say that it makes the CVP fighters equivalent as land fighters, the CVP fighters overall have much worse air to air rating than their land based counterparts no? What it makes is that when fighters with air to air ratings of 5 and more are available, you quickly send the old ones with 3 or 4 air rating in the reserve pool because they do not provide a +1 on air to air combat as backup fighters.

We play with that rule in our board campaign. This is our second campaign with that rule, I will explain why we decided using it (anyway always a question of personal taste). Mainly it will control the number of fighters you want to send in a fight, since now, it's not an almost automatic +1 on fights with each backup fighter.

We were growing tired of huge air to air battles over France in 1943-44 involving 14 FTRs from each side for just a simple ground strike, we found it was unrealistic.

I Hope it helps. [:)]

[brian brian]

it is very important that you realize that the back-up fighters rule in the new Errata is a change to an OPTIONAL rule that you aren't required to play with in the first place

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

it is very important that you realize that the back-up fighters rule in the new Errata is a change to an OPTIONAL rule that you aren't required to play with in the first place

However we liked it so little we dropped the optional since the old optional was replaced in the Errata. So now our back-up fighters are all worth '1' and we don't look at whether they may be outclassed.

Of course, Harry has often said players are free to use any rules they all agree on.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead
Some of the new rules I like, some I need to digest. My question is, are these new rules interpretations being implemented into MWIF?

Rules errata are not "rules interpretations", they are rule errata, and they are included in MWiF as far as I can tell.
As for the new optional rules of the annual, none are included (although some are really interesting, but they will be for another day).

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead
For those of you not familiar, here is a link:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/wif ... ion/files/
scroll down to Errata from 2008 WiF Annual doc.

You need to be member of the group to see the file, don't you ?
The errata are ::

***************************************
2008 WiF Errata from the Annual

2008 Mech in Flames Countersheet Rules
1. Guards Banner divisions: Guard Banner (see WIF 22.4.14) divisions are the only units that may breakdown Guards Banner Armies. Guard Banner divisions breakdown a Guards Banner Army in the same manner as ordinary divisions (see WiF 22.4.1). They may also enter play by promotion (see WiF 22.4.14) but not by normal production (see WiF 13.6). When destroyed, they are placed back into their force pool and are available to be promoted or to breakdown other Guards Banner Armies in the future.

2. All Commonwealth Set Ups: Where any World in Flames set-up (see Wif 24) instructs the Commonwealth to set up a C-47, they instead set up any available ATR (chosen randomly).

3. City based volunteers: All units with the name of a city on their back are city based volunteers (see WiF 22.4.8).

4. MIF Ships: All naval units are available to be built from the tear they become available. The Japanese replacement carriers are alternatives to those provided in Ships in Flames. Japan can replace the Japanese battleships with either SiF or MiF (historical) version, not both.
The Commonwealth WWI monitors (Roberts if playing Classic WiF, or the Terror and Erebus, if playing with SiF) set up in the United Kingdom in all scenarios involving the Western European map. They are removed from play in all other scenarios. Furthermore in all scenarios starting after Sep/Oct 1941, the Terror is no longer available (this was the turn she was sunk). The other 2 monitors are placed in the construction pool in Western European scenarios commencing the calendar year following the monitors available date, and on the map in the United Kingdom in all Western European scenarios commencing two or more calendar years after.

Factories in Flames counter errata
The back of the German Inf Spc. And Sub Spc are transposed. The Sub Spc is available from 1940 and the Inf Spc from 1941.

2d10 Combat Chart (WiF Option 43, 11.16.6)
Halve the attack bonus of all divisions (e.g. ARN/MECH armor divisions give +0.5 not +1 in attack). Rivers halve the blitz bonus of all units. This is cumulative (e.g. an ARM division’s blitz bonus attacking across a river is quartered).

Aircraft Rebasing (WiF 11.17)
CVPiF & SiF option 56: During the aircraft rebase step, you may rebase CVPs within a hex (i.e. from one CV to another, and/or from a CV to land) for no action cost.

Reorganization of ships at sea (WiF 13.5)
Ships and aircraft at sea are always in supply and may always reorganize (see WiF 2.4.1). If playing with oil (WiF option 13.5.1) they still consume oil, but they do not have to trace to it.

Oil (AfA option 40, WiF 13.5.1)
Co-operating major powers may freely use each other’s oil, provided the oil’s owner consents.

Transporting Resources (WiF 13.6.1)
Apart from the Japan-US agreement, you may only transport your own resources and, if you are active, resources for other active major powers on your side.

Transporting Lend-Lease (WiF 13.6.4)
The amount of Lend-lease that can be transported to the capital, a city, or a factory is the total amount that can be received there, not the amount that can be sent by any particular major power.

Marker Reinforcements (WiF 13.6.5)
When placing a marker as a reinforcement, you may place it in any hex you or one of your aligned minor countries control.

Completely Conquered Minors (WiF 13.7.1)
Roll for the capture of completely conquered minor country ships in the same way as a incompletely conquered ones.

Militia on reverting to neutrality (WiF 13.7.3)
When a major power reverts to neutrality, any on-map MIL are placed in the reserve pool instead of the force pool, and thereafter treated as regular reserves.

USSR-Japan peace (WiF 13.7.3), add to WiF option 50
The USSR may surrender at any time during its first war with Japan. In addition to hexes given up per the existing surrender rule, all hexes on the Pacific map are surrendered to Japan. Japan may surrender at any time to the USSR during their first war. In addition to hexes given up per the existing surrender rule, Japan also cedes Manchuria to the USSR.

Surrender (WiF 13.7.6)
Halve the US Entry effect of the conquest of a country that surrendered. Furthermore, any factories that are completely isolated (have no friendly-controlled adjacent hexes) count as enemy controlled when determining if you own less than half your factories for surrender.

Back up Fighters (WiF 14.3.2, replaces WiF option 55)
Back-up fighters in any air combat add 1/10th to their air-to-air strength instead of 1 per unit.

Offensive Chit on a Naval Action (WiF 16.2)
If you use an offensive chit in a Naval impulse on a HQ in a port, any naval or aircraft units that start stacked in that port that initiate a naval combat may require one or both sides to roll extra dice in any round of naval combat this impulse.

After naval movement but before any combats, place numbered production markers in each sea zone containing one or more units that stacked with the HQ. The total value of markers placed may not exceed the HQ’s reorganization value.

In each round of naval combat, immediately after any roll (search, air-to-air anti-aircraft, or defense) by either side is made, the player conducting the naval offensive may reduce a marker’s value by 1 to demand a re-roll. Re-rolls may be re-rolled. Any markers left in the sea area after the end of naval combat there are destroyed.

Example: Nimitz is in Pearl Harbor stacked with 3 SCS and a P-38G FTR. Jay plays a naval offensive on Nimitz at the start of his naval action. Jay flies the Lighting into the 4 box of the Marshalls sea area. At the end of naval movement, Jay places a “1” marker in the Hawaiian Is. and a “2” marker in the Marshalls. During naval combat Jay initiates a search in the Marshalls. Jay rolls a 4 and decides to keep it. Kasigi then rolls a 2. Jay demands a re-roll and Kasigi rolls a 9. Jay decides to save his additional marker for a subsequent search, but the remaining Japanese ships abort after the first round of combat. The remaining marker is destroyed.

Vichy France (WiF 19.2)
Vichy may not be declared if the USA and Germany are at war.

Foreign Troop Commitment in Vichy (WiF) 18.2)
Axis units are also destroyed if they cannot satisfy foreign troop commitment in Vichy administration groups.

Aligning Minors (WiF 19.2)
China may not align any minor country in any World in Flames scenario (exceptions: DoD and PatiF)

Breaking down into Divisions (WiF 22.4.1)
Minor country corps/armies may not breakdown or reform. Major power units may not breakdown into, or reform from, minor country units.

Promoting GBA (WiF 22.4.14)
You may only promote a division into a GBA division (not army).

DOD/PatiF: The USSR may also promote GBA in combat against US land units.
***************************************

[ItBurns]

Being completely ignorant of all the errata I have to ask if earlier errata addressed what I considered confusing wording in the rules as written? Like the text from the set up the Global war scenario stating that Czechoslovakia is aligned with Germany? Technically that means that the Czech army should be set up and controlled by Germany and this is a VERY nice but completely ahistorical addition to the starting German forces.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: ItBurns

Being completely ignorant of all the errata I have to ask if earlier errata addressed what I considered confusing wording in the rules as written? Like the text from the set up the Global war scenario stating that Czechoslovakia is aligned with Germany? Technically that means that the Czech army should be set up and controlled by Germany and this is a VERY nice but completely ahistorical addition to the starting German forces.

I think that this is written somewhere else in the scenario book that Czech (& Austrian) units are never setup unless when playing DoD.

[Jagdtiger14]

The Czech units are meant for the Days of Decision game. If you begin a Global War scenario, there are no Czech units...unless if you play DoD first, earn the units, and then go on to play Global War. I agree that RAW needs to be updated, but there is soooo much to do on that. One of my pet peeves: the cooperation rules. In reality, why would the Senagalese MIL not cooperate with the US? Why would the Portugese GAR not cooperate with the US? I can understand certain cooperation being restricted like Hugary/Romania, USSR...but everything else is just stupid.
C

ORIGINAL: ItBurns

Being completely ignorant of all the errata I have to ask if earlier errata addressed what I considered confusing wording in the rules as written? Like the text from the set up the Global war scenario stating that Czechoslovakia is aligned with Germany? Technically that means that the Czech army should be set up and controlled by Germany and this is a VERY nice but completely ahistorical addition to the starting German forces.

[oscar72se]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

The Czech units are meant for the Days of Decision game. If you begin a Global War scenario, there are no Czech units...unless if you play DoD first, earn the units, and then go on to play Global War. I agree that RAW needs to be updated, but there is soooo much to do on that. One of my pet peeves: the cooperation rules. In reality, why would the Senagalese MIL not cooperate with the US? Why would the Portugese GAR not cooperate with the US? I can understand certain cooperation being restricted like Hugary/Romania, USSR...but everything else is just stupid.
C

Oh, there are several examples of rules that need fixing if realism is the ultimate goal. How about the french player giving away all BPs to CW before Paris falls? Another "favourite" is when the entire polish airforce rebases into Hungary, just so that CW can have more pilots... (definitely worth it btw) And lastly, this one really sucks, when Germany declares war on USSR and makes sure that no land unit enters Russian soil (in order to avoid Russian PMs).

Regards,
Oscar

[sajbalk]

Oh, there are several examples of rules that need fixing if realism is the ultimate goal. How about the french player giving away all BPs to CW before Paris falls? Another "favourite" is when the entire polish airforce rebases into Hungary, just so that CW can have more pilots... (definitely worth it btw) And lastly, this one really sucks, when Germany declares war on USSR and makes sure that no land unit enters Russian soil (in order to avoid Russian PMs).

Regards,
Oscar

I agree in part with you, Oscar. For more realism, one can always use house rules or in the case of France use LOC Vichy rules. However, those will not be coded. Having the Polish air force interned is not too bad; only 4 BP's worth of stuff. Worse is to intern (by USSR) the Polish HQ so the CW can use it once USSR is at war with Germany.

I disagree as to the Russian attacks. A Germany which DOWs and stays out of Russia has let loose a mighty beast. Germany MUST kill the Russian army; territory is less important. Failing that, the Allies should win.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: oscar72se

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

The Czech units are meant for the Days of Decision game. If you begin a Global War scenario, there are no Czech units...unless if you play DoD first, earn the units, and then go on to play Global War. I agree that RAW needs to be updated, but there is soooo much to do on that. One of my pet peeves: the cooperation rules. In reality, why would the Senagalese MIL not cooperate with the US? Why would the Portugese GAR not cooperate with the US? I can understand certain cooperation being restricted like Hugary/Romania, USSR...but everything else is just stupid.
C

Oh, there are several examples of rules that need fixing if realism is the ultimate goal. How about the french player giving away all BPs to CW before Paris falls? Another "favourite" is when the entire polish airforce rebases into Hungary, just so that CW can have more pilots... (definitely worth it btw) And lastly, this one really sucks, when Germany declares war on USSR and makes sure that no land unit enters Russian soil (in order to avoid Russian PMs).

Regards,
Oscar

Warspite1

But the CW did benefit from Polish pilots - two fighter squadrons alone in the Battle of Britain. [&o]

Bottom line is, there are plenty of niggling examples of ahistorical situations - doesn`t stop it being a great game though does it? [;)]

[oscar72se]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Oh, there are several examples of rules that need fixing if realism is the ultimate goal. How about the french player giving away all BPs to CW before Paris falls? Another "favourite" is when the entire polish airforce rebases into Hungary, just so that CW can have more pilots... (definitely worth it btw) And lastly, this one really sucks, when Germany declares war on USSR and makes sure that no land unit enters Russian soil (in order to avoid Russian PMs).

Regards,
Oscar

I agree in part with you, Oscar. For more realism, one can always use house rules or in the case of France use LOC Vichy rules. However, those will not be coded. Having the Polish air force interned is not too bad; only 4 BP's worth of stuff. Worse is to intern (by USSR) the Polish HQ so the CW can use it once USSR is at war with Germany.

I disagree as to the Russian attacks. A Germany which DOWs and stays out of Russia has let loose a mighty beast. Germany MUST kill the Russian army; territory is less important. Failing that, the Allies should win.

My point is that if realism is the issue, the examples I mentioned doesn't help accomplish this. As all games, even WiF has its downsides (even though they are not as many). House rules helps balancing these issues, you're right about that.

Don't get me wrong now, WiF is the greatest game ever, but it is not a super realistic simulation of WW2. And it shouldn't be, because if it was it would be super boring with the same outcome everytime. I think that gameplay is much more important to me when playing a game. If I want 100% realism I'll go read a good book instead [:)]

Regards,
Oscar